Concealed EDC for limp-wristed, weak-fingered, new shooter?

[MNblockhead]

So I'm frustrated beyond the point of being embarrassed about this post. As someone who has struggled with RSI/Carpal Tunnel for years and am cursed with small, weak hands, finding the ideal gun for every-day, concealed carry has been a struggle. I'm a new shooter, having bought my first handgun last summer and got my carry permit last fall.

My first handgun purchase went well and I still love my Springfield XDm-9 4.5. I never have failures to eject or load, I am pretty accurate with it, and I trust my life to it as a home-defense weapon. But it is too large for concealed carry. I'll wear it with a Crossbreed Supertuck IWB holster in the winter under a sweater and even then it will print a bit and it isn't that comfortable to wear IWB.

My second handgun was bought for every-day concealed carry. Something I could wear in business casual. After a lot of research and trying a number of guns, I got a Glock 42. The form factor is perfect. Comfortable to hold. Nice trigger. I put it in a kydex pocket holster and nobody knows. I can also draw it MUCH faster from a pocket holster than any IWB holster with an untucked shirt helping to conceal it. Seemed perfect.

But, for me, the Glock 42 is like having a gorgeous girlfriend who won't put out. Very frustrating. Despite how everyone raves about Glocks being incredibly reliable guns that are not picky about ammo, I've experienced the opposite with the 42. Constant stove pipes and failure of the magazine to feed. Some ammo like the Hornady Critical Defense, it just won't shoot at all. I've sent it to Glock and they sent it back with a new mag, which helped a bit, but not enough to rely on it in a life-or-death situation. I've worked on firming up my grip, making sure my hand it smashed up tight to the beaver tail, and that helps. I can now get through a couple magazines (which on this gun is only 14 shots) before a FTE. Whether I sell the Glock 42 or keep working at it, it certainly is not the gun for me for EDC, and instead of getting a long gun, which I was hoping would be my third gun, I'm once again researching compact handguns.

So, back to research and renting guns. My initial experiences have been disheartening. I've tried:

Smith & Wesson 442/642
I like the idea of a revolver for EDC because of reliability. I especially like not having an exposed hammer that can snag on clothing in an emergency situation. I think, with the right pocket holster, this could work for business casual. If not pocket, then a super-tuck IWB might work, though the belt clips would be a give away to knowledgeable observer.

My problem with this gun is I can't pull the trigger. If I put my hand lower on the grip and use my second knuckle, I can fire it, but I'm really inaccurate with it, even with a crimson trace laser on it. I'm also much slower with firing it. I'm tempted to use two fingers on the trigger just to improve accuracy and speed.

Everyone complains about the kickback and how punishing these guns are on their hands, but that doesn't bother me. I'd be happy to suffer bruised and sore hands if I could shoot the darn thing well enough.

Boberg XR9
I like the concept of the gun and would like to support a company from my hometown, but again, I find it hard to get the trigger back. It was worse than the S&W 442 and this is a semi-automatic! It isn't that the trigger pull is that heavy, its just that I can't pull the trigger all the way, it get to last few millimeters and I can't pull it back far enough to shoot. I need two fingers to shoot it. After a couple tries, it went back in the case.

Springfield Armory XD 3" sub-compact 9mm or the XD Mod.2

I didn't consider the compact XDs when I was first looking, because they seemed too large for business casual pocket carry and I think they would still print too much, IWB with a supertuck or some other IWB holster that allows shirts to be tucked in. But, if they are as reliable as their big brothers, I think I should give them another look as I'm familiar with the platform.

For those of you with weak hand or who have trained and helped select guns for the weak handed, what do you recommend for deep concealed carry?

[fine ape]

On the S&W revolvers when you say you can't pull the trigger, is it that the trigger is too heavy? Or that you can't move your finger back far enough?

Its been my experience that most DAO revolvers like the 442/642 have a heavier trigger pull than most DA/SA revolvers do firing DA. If you like the little Smiths look for a 438/638 they have a hammer like a regular j frame, but its consealed on the sides by the frame giving it a "humpback" look.

Have you looked at a Ruger LCR?

If it's finger reach thicker grips front to back could reposition your hand to reach better.

You got handle a Boberg.... I'm jealous

Sense you say you like your XDM and can shoot it look at the XDS. Its basically a XD sub compact cut down the middle to make it a single stack.

At the risk of sounding like a bunghole, try to strengthen your trigger finger if you can. This isn't a slam on you, I know from experience with some members of my family that new(er) shooters have more trouble with DA triggers than SA or striker fired guns as they don't have the same strength in there index finger as i do.

[Seismic Sam]

Well, even though I am the 800 lb. reloading troll who generally makes fun of people, your post is so honest that I can't do anything but try and help.

First thing: Is "last fall" last year, or a few months ago?? I'm trying to judge the timeframe that you have tried to get comfortable with EDC. The reason I ask is that issues that seem pretty big when you start carrying will disappear after you get used to it, and you would be amazed with what you can get away with once you get past the self conscious part of it.

I am going to assume that you are not trying to carry at work where concealment is a MUCH bigger problem, and really a separate issue. If you are still new to concealed carry, I'm going to assume you are not trying to do this.

As far as trigger pull, if you have a DA/SA automatic, limiting yourself to the DA mode WILL make it harder to pull the trigger the first time, which can create a hurdle which it could be tough to get over. I have quite a few DA/SA automatics, and if I carry them they are always cocked and locked. Having the first trigger pull harder than the rest seems to me to be a perfect setup to blow the first shot to the left for a right handed shooter, and I religiously stay away from that situation.

Next question is what kind of insurance does your employer have, and does it cover carpal tunnel syndrome?? The surgery is pretty straightforward, and with 90% of the work being done on keyboards these days, carpal tunnel is pretty endemic, and most employers should have coverage.

That's about it at this point, and if nothing else you should try carrying larger guns (if you have them) in a IWB holster just to prove to yourself that people really do NOT pay attention to you even if YOU think you can see a bulge when you look at it. It seems your self consciousness is probably limiting your gun choice to some degree, so you need to get rid of THAT problem first. That will make the rest of the problem easier. Good luck!!

[Squib Joe]

You're one step ahead of the game because you've placed a priority on protecting yourself inside of your limitations over protecting your ego.

Just off the cuff I'd probably suggest you look at the Ruger LCR in 38 Special or even 327 Federal, which has in my opinion a much smoother DA trigger than most S&W revolvers.

My second suggestion, and in this I agree with Sam <!>, is that you go ahead and try a SAO semi-auto such as a Sig P938 or Springfield EMP in 9mm. You will need to be comfortable carrying these cocked and locked and make sure you're able to sweep off the safety with no issues.

[djont57]

I have the Ruger LCR .38 & small hands also; but, no carpal tunnel. I like this gun a lot.

[westhope]

A good gunsmith can lighten up a S&W 642 (J-frame) trigger somewhat (10% to 20 %) and still keep it fully reliable.

[JJ]

As for the S&W revolver, don't overlook doing a bit of trigger work/spring tuning. Factory DA pull is usually over 8-9lbs, and long on factory S&W's. I can usually get these down in the 5-6lb range without altering sear geometry, and just smoothing out the sear engagement surfaces, polishing the contact points in the lockwork, and moving to lighter springs.

If you don't change geometry on the ground surfaces, and only polish the engagement surfaces you will not affect the length of pull to sear break.

I personally carry a S&W 360 a lot, and i don't get worked up about the exposed hammer. I usually carry in a Galco King-tuk and with minimal training have gotten to the point that I don't worry about the hammer snagging.

As Squib Joe mentioned, the Ruger LCR is certainly another one to look at. I find that Ruger triggers are better out of the box, and the S&W's are better after tuning.

[shooter115]

If you really like the XDm (as I do also), I'd suggest taking a test drive with the XDs.

[gun_fan111v2]

If the trigger has to be fairly "light" and with short travel then the usual suspects are two:
- 1911. There are smaller variants like Springfield EMP in 9 or 40 mentioned above or Browning/RIA 1911 variants in 380 acp. Officer or CCO sized guns are quite concealable but not pocket guns.
- single action revolvers, if you want to go old school. I don't know much about these but pocket variants definitely exist in .22 lr and magnum.

Good luck in your search!

[MNblockhead]

On the S&W revolvers when you say you can't pull the trigger, is it that the trigger is too heavy? Or that you can't move your finger back far enough?

With the S&W, mostly it is too heavy. To pull it back I have to grip lower on the handle to get more leverage. This, along with the much longer trigger pull, makes me very innacurate with it. Plus after firing it a few times, I rapidly loose finger strength and an eventually can't fire it without giving my hand a rest.

Its been my experience that most DAO revolvers like the 442/642 have a heavier trigger pull than most DA/SA revolvers do firing DA. If you like the little Smiths look for a 438/638 they have a hammer like a regular j frame, but its consealed on the sides by the frame giving it a "humpback" look.

I test it out next time I'm at the range. I do worry that for self-defense purposes, having to cock it it an extra step that shaves off precious time. Hopefully, adrenaline would kick in and help with firing it DA.

Have you looked at a Ruger LCR?

Read up on it. Like the look of the S&w 442/642 better, so that's what I rented first. I've read that the LCR has a better trigger, so I'll definitely rent one the next time I'm at the range.

If it's finger reach thicker grips front to back could reposition your hand to reach better.

That was the issue with the boberg. It wasn't a really heavy trigger pull, I just couldn't get it pulled all the way back. Maybe a different grip would help. Not sure how to test that. Not sure it is a good idea to wrap something around the handle to make it thicker to test that.

You got handle a Boberg.... I'm jealous

Yeah, it's a neat gun. A bit pricey for my budget, but I would save up if it was exactly what I was looking for. But I found it really hard to fire. For an EDC, I want to be 100% comfortable with it and feel confident that if the SHTH, I'll be able to fire it, hit the target, and that it will be reliable.

Sense you say you like your XDM and can shoot it look at the XDS. Its basically a XD sub compact cut down the middle to make it a single stack.

Right now that's what I'm leaning towards. I'm going to test the XDS and XD-Mod.2 the next time I'm at the range. I just need to figure out a way I can carry in business casual.

At the risk of sounding like a bunghole, try to strengthen your trigger finger if you can. This isn't a slam on you, I know from experience with some members of my family that new(er) shooters have more trouble with DA triggers than SA or striker fired guns as they don't have the same strength in there index finger as i do.

I need to work out more in general. One issue that I have is that I've had very bad RSI in the past which come back quickly when I slip into bad ergonomic habits. So, while I have a "grip master" in my Amazon buy-later list, because I've heard great things about it for developing grip and finger strength. But I worry that it would inflame RSI issues. At this point, just doing more free weights might be better, since griping the weight can help strengthen fingers and risk without lots of repetitive stress on the individual fingers. I'm planning on seeing a physical therapist for tips and to see if my insurance might partly cover some of the equipment. May seem like overkill, but when my RSI was at its worst, it was crippling. I'm highly incented to avoid that situation again.

[MNblockhead]

Well, even though I am the 800 lb. reloading troll who generally makes fun of people, your post is so honest that I can't do anything but try and help.

Thank's. Don't mind being made fun of if it comes with good advice.

First thing: Is "last fall" last year, or a few months ago?? I'm trying to judge the timeframe that you have tried to get comfortable with EDC. The reason I ask is that issues that seem pretty big when you start carrying will disappear after you get used to it, and you would be amazed with what you can get away with once you get past the self conscious part of it.

Last year. I'm very comfortable carrying my Glock 42 in a kydex pocket hoslter. Have done many hours of dry fire practice. I'm very quick getting it out. But on the range I experience far to many FTEs that after many months, I've come to the conclusion that I'm being irresponsible using it as my EDC. I guess the bright side is that I have gotten a lot of practice clearing the FTEs. (Doing that as a lefty is a topic for another post...)

I am going to assume that you are not trying to carry at work where concealment is a MUCH bigger problem, and really a separate issue. If you are still new to concealed carry, I'm going to assume you are not trying to do this.

I carry everywhere that is legal. I work for myself, mostly at home when not travelling. If I have to fly, I leave my gun at home because I would rather be killed by a thug than have to deal with checking luggage in (only slightly tongue in cheek). That is one reason I loved the Glock 42. I put it in my pocket wearing slacks and a tucked in dress shirt, or a full suit, and have done lunches, coffees, dinners, meetings at client sites, and unless a metal detector or pat down is involved, nobody is the wiser. Yes, unlike IWB, under an armpit, special underwear, or ankle carry, I can draw my gun quickly. If my situational awareness has led me to have concerns about someone, I can just walk down the street with my hands in my pocket, one hand on the handle of my gun. If I could shoot the gun reliably, it would be the perfect EDC for me.

As far as trigger pull, if you have a DA/SA automatic, limiting yourself to the DA mode WILL make it harder to pull the trigger the first time, which can create a hurdle which it could be tough to get over. I have quite a few DA/SA automatics, and if I carry them they are always cocked and locked. Having the first trigger pull harder than the rest seems to me to be a perfect setup to blow the first shot to the left for a right handed shooter, and I religiously stay away from that situation.

For EDC, my preference is to have consistent trigger pull. Either DAO or SAO. If I had a DA/SA auto, I would do the same as you. But I try to avoid guns with multiple trigger pulls, safeties, etc. I want to be realistic about my training and about how I will react in a life or death situation. I've had several situations (a near public shooting, a large gang fight in the street, a group of drunk thugs trying to pull me out of a bus station late at night) that I know that in no way am I going to be thinking or engaging in fine motor skills. It has to be draw and fire. I've always liked the Glock/Springfield design, carried with one in the chamber, but other than the Glock 42, all seemed to be too big for deep concealment.

Next question is what kind of insurance does your employer have, and does it cover carpal tunnel syndrome?? The surgery is pretty straightforward, and with 90% of the work being done on keyboards these days, carpal tunnel is pretty endemic, and most employers should have coverage.

Was paying for my own insurance, with very high deductibles and an HSA, but recently went on my wife's plan when she got a job with the county. As mentioned in another post, I'm going to see a physical therapist and see if surgery is necessary or if they'll cover anything to help with wrist and hand strength conditioning.

That's about it at this point, and if nothing else you should try carrying larger guns (if you have them) in a IWB holster just to prove to yourself that people really do NOT pay attention to you even if YOU think you can see a bulge when you look at it. It seems your self consciousness is probably limiting your gun choice to some degree, so you need to get rid of THAT problem first. That will make the rest of the problem easier. Good luck!!

Good advice. It took me over a year before I tried to carry my Springfield XDM. No that it is getting colder, I bought a Crossbreed Supertuck. I've been able to carry the Springfield wearing a sweater and I think you'd need to be really observant and looking for it to notice. But it isn't that comfortable and no as fast to draw from IWB as from a pocket, though one advantage of wearing IWB as a lefty, is I can now draw seated in the drivers seat with the seatbelt on. Something I would never be able to do with a pocket holster. I'm thinking that if I like shooting the Springfield XDS or MOD.2, I could get a super tuck holster for it, which should definitely work when dressed casually. Skeptical about business casual carry though.

[MNblockhead]

Just off the cuff I'd probably suggest you look at the Ruger LCR in 38 Special or even 327 Federal, which has in my opinion a much smoother DA trigger than most S&W revolvers.

The Ruger LCR is the next gun I'll test. I'll follow up here after I do.

My second suggestion, and in this I agree with Sam <!>, is that you go ahead and try a SAO semi-auto such as a Sig P938 or Springfield EMP in 9mm. You will need to be comfortable carrying these cocked and locked and make sure you're able to sweep off the safety with no issues.

I'll try them out, but looking at them, seems like lots of opportunity for snagging on clothes when drawing from concealment. I'd be comfortable carrying cocked and locked, I carry my Glock 42 with one in the chamber. I make sure I have a solid, form-fitted kydex holster for it. Took me a while carrying with snap caps in it until I was comfortable but I got over it. I don't like the idea of a safety. I know, I know. Train. Train. Train. But I don't trust myself to not fumble with the safety in an emergency. Also, I'm a lefty, so I would then need to find a gun with a safety that can be manipulated easily by my left-hand thumb. One thing I love about my Springfield is that it has an ambidextrous mag release. No only is this great for lefties, but if you had to fire with your weak had (perhaps your strong hand is injured), you can easily switch hands. With the Glock 42 it is pretty easy to switch the mag release to the other side. But it is only on one side.

I know we are talking safeties and not mag releases, but the mag release example shows the amount of thought I give to these things as a lefty. Most guns are not lefty friendly. A topic for another thread.

[MNblockhead]

A good gunsmith can lighten up a S&W 642 (J-frame) trigger somewhat (10% to 20 %) and still keep it fully reliable.

Trouble is that I would need to buy the gun, pay for the work on it, before I could really test it. I need more friends with large and varied gun collections so I can rely less on rentals.

I'm going to try a few other guns first, but this is still an option. I really like the S&w snub nosed revolvers.

[MNblockhead]

I have the Ruger LCR .38 & small hands also; but, no carpal tunnel. I like this gun a lot.

Lot's of folks recommending this gun. I read about it but like the look of the S&W. Now I wish I'd rented the LCR as well on my last trip to the range. I'm definitely going to rent an LCR next time I'm there.

[MNblockhead]

As for the S&W revolver, don't overlook doing a bit of trigger work/spring tuning. Factory DA pull is usually over 8-9lbs, and long on factory S&W's. I can usually get these down in the 5-6lb range without altering sear geometry, and just smoothing out the sear engagement surfaces, polishing the contact points in the lockwork, and moving to lighter springs.

If you don't change geometry on the ground surfaces, and only polish the engagement surfaces you will not affect the length of pull to sear break.

I personally carry a S&W 360 a lot, and i don't get worked up about the exposed hammer. I usually carry in a Galco King-tuk and with minimal training have gotten to the point that I don't worry about the hammer snagging.

As Squib Joe mentioned, the Ruger LCR is certainly another one to look at. I find that Ruger triggers are better out of the box, and the S&W's are better after tuning.

What would the trigger work cost? On the one hand, I don't want to skimp on my EDC, but I am cost sensitive right now.

A hammer should be fine with an IWB holster, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with an exposed hammer in a pocket gun. Maybe I just need some dry fire practice to get over that prejudice.