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I just can't wrap my head around the current shield prices. I've seen them as low as $225, including the rebate. So, either they were making huge profits previously (hahaha), or they are taking a bath on these (obviously). I can understand the idea of saturating a market to force competitors into distress, but if you see all the new pistols coming out, they are still averaging around $500. Viewed through that prism, there isn't a better, proven firearm for the money, on the market.

Ironbear wrote:Near as I can tell... .45 GAP and .357 Sig make .40 S&W look real healthy!

Well, the 45 GAP IS dead and buried, and the proof is that in the post-Sandy Hook buying panic, the 45 GAP was one of the cases that sat unloved and unbought on the shelves of Fleet Farm. (Along with the 454 Casull and 9x23 brass)

The 357 Sig is certainly a curiousity, but at least a potent one, and these days it's kind of (but not completely) a poor man's 357 Coonan.

All the 10mm owners have been farting in the general direction of the 40 Short & Weak since it was created, and NO 10mm owners are interested in selling or not shooting their mighty 10mm's. Hoo-Rah!!!

Randygmn wrote:I just can't wrap my head around the current shield prices. I've seen them as low as $225, including the rebate. So, either they were making huge profits previously (hahaha), or they are taking a bath on these (obviously). I can understand the idea of saturating a market to force competitors into distress, but if you see all the new pistols coming out, they are still averaging around $500. Viewed through that prism, there isn't a better, proven firearm for the money, on the market.

New model coming.

Ironbear wrote:Hah! Pretty close to buying a .41 Action Express once in my life! Thought it was a GREAT idea!



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Sam might have one for ya

Ghost wrote:

Randygmn wrote:I just can't wrap my head around the current shield prices. I've seen them as low as $225, including the rebate. So, either they were making huge profits previously (hahaha), or they are taking a bath on these (obviously). I can understand the idea of saturating a market to force competitors into distress, but if you see all the new pistols coming out, they are still averaging around $500. Viewed through that prism, there isn't a better, proven firearm for the money, on the market.

New model coming.

Maybe for next year (shot show?), but not now. No new models announced this weekend at the NRA show, fwiw. But just about all of their semi auto pistols have some kind of rebate.

fine ape wrote:

Ironbear wrote:Hah! Pretty close to buying a .41 Action Express once in my life! Thought it was a GREAT idea!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Sam might have one for ya

Well, OF COURSE I have one!! A stainless Tanfoglio GT-41 WITH a 9mm barrel in addition, so you can shoot either caliber, and no less than 1,000 rounds of NEW 41AE brass I stumbled across quite a while ago. If viewed from the perspective of a landscape where you could have a 9mm auto with so-so bullets or a 45 with any old bullet, the choice of being able to take an existing 9mm firearm and run it up to 41 Magnum lite power was a HELL of an improvement for just a new barrel and mag for an existing gun. Sadly, the mighty 10mm hurt the poor widdle wrists of some FBI agents, and so the 40 Short & Weak was afterbirthed.....

This argument again on 40 S&W. Not a dam thing wrong with 40 S&W. 9MM may be close if you need to spray and pray but the 40's knock down power will still beat the 9mm. Sure the 9mm have more ammo capacity in a clip but if your a good shot you shouldn't need the extra ammo. Am sure I will be getting all the hate mail for this comment. Knock yourself out and send it. Am not saying the 9mm is a bad caliber. I prefer and enjoy reloading the 40 S&W to make it bark the way I want it to. 1050 fps with a Hornady XTP! One shot will do it just fine!

Bearcatrp wrote:This argument again on 40 S&W. Not a dam thing wrong with 40 S&W. 9MM may be close if you need to spray and pray but the 40's knock down power will still beat the 9mm. Sure the 9mm have more ammo capacity in a clip but if your a good shot you shouldn't need the extra ammo. Am sure I will be getting all the hate mail for this comment. Knock yourself out and send it. Am not saying the 9mm is a bad caliber. I prefer and enjoy reloading the 40 S&W to make it bark the way I want it to. 1050 fps with a Hornady XTP! One shot will do it just fine!

Knock down power is a vague concept at best, it really is about wound damage. You really need to see the actual ballistic tests. 9/40/45 are basically indistinguishably from each other once they hit. Bullet technology has marginalized the 40 to the point it has no incremental advantage for personal protection.

mmcnx2 wrote:

Bearcatrp wrote:This argument again on 40 S&W. Not a dam thing wrong with 40 S&W. 9MM may be close if you need to spray and pray but the 40's knock down power will still beat the 9mm. Sure the 9mm have more ammo capacity in a clip but if your a good shot you shouldn't need the extra ammo. Am sure I will be getting all the hate mail for this comment. Knock yourself out and send it. Am not saying the 9mm is a bad caliber. I prefer and enjoy reloading the 40 S&W to make it bark the way I want it to. 1050 fps with a Hornady XTP! One shot will do it just fine!

Knock down power is a vague concept at best, it really is about wound damage. You really need to see the actual ballistic tests. 9/40/45 are basically indistinguishably from each other once they hit. Bullet technology has marginalized the 40 to the point it has no incremental advantage for personal protection.

Has anyone done testing comparing 9,40,45 with a more realistic medium with bone, conective tissue, ect? IE pig carcasses.

I known Brassfetcher has done a 9, 45, 5.56, and 00Buck test using simulate bone and different density balistic gels.

Randygmn wrote:

Ghost wrote:

Randygmn wrote:I just can't wrap my head around the current shield prices. I've seen them as low as $225, including the rebate. So, either they were making huge profits previously (hahaha), or they are taking a bath on these (obviously). I can understand the idea of saturating a market to force competitors into distress, but if you see all the new pistols coming out, they are still averaging around $500. Viewed through that prism, there isn't a better, proven firearm for the money, on the market.

New model coming.

Maybe for next year (shot show?), but not now. No new models announced this weekend at the NRA show, fwiw. But just about all of their semi auto pistols have some kind of rebate.

When I bought my shield, they were saying this summer

fine ape wrote:

mmcnx2 wrote:

Bearcatrp wrote:This argument again on 40 S&W. Not a dam thing wrong with 40 S&W. 9MM may be close if you need to spray and pray but the 40's knock down power will still beat the 9mm. Sure the 9mm have more ammo capacity in a clip but if your a good shot you shouldn't need the extra ammo. Am sure I will be getting all the hate mail for this comment. Knock yourself out and send it. Am not saying the 9mm is a bad caliber. I prefer and enjoy reloading the 40 S&W to make it bark the way I want it to. 1050 fps with a Hornady XTP! One shot will do it just fine!

Knock down power is a vague concept at best, it really is about wound damage. You really need to see the actual ballistic tests. 9/40/45 are basically indistinguishably from each other once they hit. Bullet technology has marginalized the 40 to the point it has no incremental advantage for personal protection.

Has anyone done testing comparing 9,40,45 with a more realistic medium with bone, conective tissue, ect? IE pig carcasses.

I known Brassfetcher has done a 9, 45, 5.56, and 00Buck test using simulate bone and different density balistic gels.

The tests done by labs, use gel at specific temperatures/density. These test include adding various materials including clothing, describing cotton, nylon ect layers. it also uses windshield glass and sheet metal. The specifications of the materials are very detailed and in the case of glass it even goes so far to define the compound angle it sits at. Pig carcasses are actually not that close to the human tissue - due to skin and muscle density. Most animals are much tougher than humans.

Randygmn wrote:I just can't wrap my head around the current shield prices. I've seen them as low as $225, including the rebate. So, either they were making huge profits previously (hahaha), or they are taking a bath on these (obviously). I can understand the idea of saturating a market to force competitors into distress, but if you see all the new pistols coming out, they are still averaging around $500. Viewed through that prism, there isn't a better, proven firearm for the money, on the market.

M&P 2.0 has been released for full-size, I don't think it's a stretch to say they are trying to help themselves/distributors/dealers clear out the compacts before releasing the shield 2.0.