To Become A Rifleman…

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To Become A Rifleman…

Postby kilogulf59 on Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:22 pm

To Become A Rifleman…

Image

” What's a rifleman?
In short, a rifleman is an armed American, trained in the tradition of American Liberty. It's a man who has learned to shoot a rifle accurately — accurate enough to score "expert" on the Army Qualification Course. Until you can do that, you're considered a "Cook," unprepared and unqualified to carry a rifle on the firing line of freedom. But after attending an Appleseed AQT shoot, you'll have the credentials necessary to be a true rifleman, and will understand the critical need for defending freedom in this country.”
That is a direct quote from the RWVA Appleseed Project most exceptional and exceedingly educational website.

We are one of the few countries, if not the only country, with a historical precedent for being a nation of riflemen. Marksmanship has literally made the United States, from initial colonization to current times. Our citizen’s skill with arms has repeatedly secured not only our own safety and freedom but also that of millions of human beings throughout the world.

The notorious Japanese Admiral, Isoroku Yamamoto, while reporting to his government, prior to WWII, on a possible west coast invasion, stated, “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.” Need I say more?

With that said, I would like to greatly encourage everyone to investigate and, if possible, attend an Appleseed Project Event. Should you have any reservations regarding the project or the RWVA peruse Sam’s post for starters – Appleseed and remember, Sam does not impress easily.

For further information:

Appleseed Project and RWVA (Revolutionary War Veterans Association) Website Learn why 19 April 1775 is so very important.

Appleseed Project/RWVA Forum Outstanding source for information about the RWVA, the project, and all things rifle related and then some.

Fred’s Stocks Apparently Fred is the man behind Appleseed. Check the “articles” and the “Fred’s columns” at this site.

I am not sure what more I can say at this time to rouse your interest in this issue. As for myself, I plan on attend an event as soon as possible. Lord knows this cook’s assistants shooting skills could certainly use a thorough tune-up.

Before I part, I would like to thank members Garand69, who enlightened us to the Appleseed Project originally, BM59Fan, and Sam, who attended a session in New Mexico and thus enabled Sam to write his interesting review of the project as a whole. You guys are great and thank you very much.
Take Care and Stay Safe,
Ken


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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby farmerj on Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:40 pm

sorry,....

I don't necessarily buy into the claim you HAVE to shoot "Expert".....

ANYONE who owns a firearm and can put lead down range "effectively" is a rifleman.

EVERYONE should be able to meet that lowly standard.
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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby 1911fan on Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:31 pm

I believe the Swiss, the Swedes, and the Finns would argue as well about the role of riflemen in their history.


A recent article. http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/20 ... -riflemen/


Just one tidbit....
Though it has a population of just 7,000,000, Switzerland boasts over 2,000 rifle ranges. Each year, close to 200,000 Swiss participate in the Eidgenössisches Feldschiessen (annual shooting skills exercise). A several hundred-year-old tradition, the Feldschiessen (aka Tiro Federale in Campagna) is the largest shooting event in the world.




NOT putting down the notion that we as Americans should know how to shoot, but its a bit egocentric to state no other nation has the history.
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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:00 pm

To become a Distinguished Rifleman
The Distinguished Rifleman.
By John Sylvester

To service rifle shooters going Distinguished or "Legging out" marks a milestone in one's shooting career. It is an important accomplishment, and requires dedication and the will to win.

Going Distinguished requires that shooters participate in matches called Excellence in Competition. These matches are commonly referred to "LEG" matches.

Excellence In Competition matches, or EIC matches are run by the CMP. They are the governing body for Service rifle competition in the United States. I am not gonna go into a history lesson on the CMP, but they were started by an Act of Congress many years ago and were called then the DCM. Recently they were privatized as an organization and took on the new name of CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program). They exist to encourage and support marksmanship training amongst the civilian population. They do this through a number of programs, but the big one is EIC matches.

EIC matches are nothing more than National Match Course (NMC) fired at 200-300-600 yds. They are standard 500 point aggregate matches. The big difference between the CMP NMC and NRA NMC are that the CMP Excellence in Competition matches are fired with NO sighters.

THE BIG GOAL!!!

The big goal for non-Distinguished shooters is to shoot well enough to place in the top 10% of all the non-Distinguished shooters. Those who place in the top 10% earn "LEG POINTS". Leg points are either valued at 10, 8 or 6 points depending on where in that top 10% your score is. The top 1/6th of the top 10% get 10 point legs or "Gold Legs", the next 1/6th of the top 10% earn 8 point Legs or "Silver Legs", the remainder of the top 10% earn 6 point Legs or "Bronze Legs". Here lies some of the confusion.

Winning LEG points does not mean that you will win a physical award(medal). But it can. When a shooter earns his/her first LEG points, the CMP issues a Bronze EIC badge. This is to award your first points. When that shooter earns 20 points the CMP issues a Silver EIC badge. When the shooter earns 30 points, they have then "Legged out" and earned the Gold badge! They are now Distinguished and their place in history is secure. I think as of this thread, there are only just a little over 1600 civilians that have gone "Distinguished" since the program's inception in 1884!

There is a small catch, and I think it still exists. Before you can LEG OUT, you must earn at least one "Hard Leg". A hard leg is either an 8 or 10 point LEG at an EIC match, or Camp Perry.

The picture below shows those three badges in order. First the Bronze EIC, then the Silver EIC, then the pretty little GOLD badge!

Image
History of the Distinguished Badge Program (pdf)
CMP Rule Book (pdf)
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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:03 pm

Double Tap, OOPS!
Last edited by Rip Van Winkle on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby farmerj on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:03 pm

Rip, Where have you gotten on that status?

And that is my goal, to at least get some leg points.

I know of one person who had legged out, not just in rifle, but pistol also
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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:14 pm

Farmerj,

The last line of my sig line says it all, 12 (points) down, 18 (left) to go.

Three guys I know legged out last summer. I'm trying to figure out a way to swing a trip to Camp Perry next year.
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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby farmerj on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:17 pm

Rip,

Taking a guess, but that is Harris in the Avatar for you?
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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:22 pm

600 yard line at North Star Rifle Club, Red Wing.

ETA: A little higher resolution.
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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby kilogulf59 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:38 am

I sense a bit of pessimism towards the folks at Appleseed/RWVA and perhaps I can clarify a few points. Mind you, I’m no expert either though I do know it is much more than simply shooting.

Here’s an explanation from their website which I suggest you visit for more information The Appleseed Project

Welcome to the Appleseed Project

What the RWVA (Revolutionary War Veterans Association) is all about:
The Appleseed Program is designed to take you from being a simple rifle owner to being a true rifleman. All throughout American history, the rifleman has been defined as a marksman capable of hitting a man-sized target from 500 yards away — no ifs, ands or buts about it. This 500-yard range is traditionally known as "the rifleman's quarter-mile;" a rifleman can hit just about any target he can see. This skill was particularly evident in the birth of our country, and was the difference in winning the Revolutionary War.

So why me?
This country was founded and won by riflemen who fought and beat British forces. We invite all interested marksmen to learn the skills and techniques necessary to shoot proficiently; and then hope you'll participate in teaching and practicing with others so that together we can save this great land. Why you? Well, that's simple: if you're on this page we're betting you're a patriot, and we hope you answer the call.

What's a rifleman?
In short, a rifleman is an armed American, trained in the tradition of American Liberty. It's a man who has learned to shoot a rifle accurately — accurate enough to score "expert" on the Army Qualification Course. Until you can do that, you're considered a "Cook," unprepared and unqualified to carry a rifle on the firing line of freedom. But after attending an Appleseed AQT shoot, you'll have the credentials necessary to be a true rifleman, and will understand the critical need for defending freedom in this country.

The RWVA is dedicated to the Appleseed Program and encourages every American to learn to shoot.


Additionally there’s Appleseed radio on the internet. They encourage call-ins so any possible question or comment you may have will be answered ASAP.

Please join us tonight at 7:00PM Central for "The Rifleman Radio Show"

You can log on at http://www.blogtalkradio.com/AppleseedRadio and you can call in at 347-308-8790

Thanks to all involved in The Appleseed Project, helping to make America a place the Founders would recognize.


Here’s a post that all should read, please note the video presentation at the end. My apologies if this is received as a plug for ICCF, I assure you that is not my intent.
GOD Bless The People Of The RWVA/Appleseed!
Take Care and Stay Safe,
Ken


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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby farmerj on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:23 am

I guess my point I was sharing earlier, this is NOTHING new. The NRA and CMP have had shoots like this for over 100 years. However they have fallen to the wayside.

http://www.odcmp.com

The links I have provided to the various matches are just that.

Nothing that the Appleseeds is doing is new information. Just a different format.

Do some additional searching on Fred and his writings. You will find out he has an "interesting" view on life..
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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:20 am

Ken, I apologize for the thread drift. I thought some of those interested in the Appleseed program might also be interested in the CMP. As farmerj stated the DCM/CMP has been around in one form or another since 1894 so the Appleseed program is nothing new, at least in my opinion.

I did make some fun of the Appleseed program a year or two ago, I found something about folks shooting smallbore rifles at 25m calling themselves "Riflemen" somewhat amusing. I do now however believe anyone who can get people out shooting and learning marksmanship is a good thing.

Godspeed.
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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby plblark on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:24 am

it looks like the difference is accessibility to newcomers ... being able to use .22's at short ranges with simulated sized targets makes it cheaper to get the trigger time and sight time and get the essentials down. Then moving up to the larger calibers and actual ranges completely changes the game ...
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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby kilogulf59 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:47 am

Well there's a lot more to it than just shooting. Their course is the US Army 1932 rifle course. The .22's were added due to cost and to encourage the whole family to participate. The targets are reduced proportionate to the range for the .22. BTW, women and active duty military personnel shoot free. The instructors are all volunteers and only get per diem.

The program is not a competition, it is a training event so one can learn there and use the skills where-ever they wish. Appleseed is something to be experienced prior to judging it, "REMEMBER – What works for you may not, necessarily, work for me. Keep an open mind!"

What Fred's views are I know not, nor am I concerned about them either. They cannot be any worse than the than the PC, "I know what's best for you", "do-gooder" mentality that is so prevalent nowadays. As well, I have not heard a negative experience from anyone who attended one of the meets, essentially all are impressed. Read what members of our own Army thought of the program...

Anyway, to each his own. I'm not here to argue a point nor do I wish to continue to defend one either.
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Re: To Become A Rifleman…

Postby swamprat on Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:06 am

When I look at the various replies, my first response is, "YES" to all of the above. Nothing Appleseed teaches is "new". The marksmanship skills are all right out of training manuals from the 1940s. The same skills used by NRA and CMP shooters. And the history? Well that's from the mid 1700s.

So what's the difference? plblark hit the nail on the head, it's all about accessibility and cost. Appleseed is bringing the program to people that would never consider going to Camp Perry or an NRA competition. As the program grows, Appleseeds are sprouting up all over the country. Now in it's 4th year, Appleseed will have held right around 400 shoots in 2009 with an attendance of close to 10,000 shooters. And large percentage of those are new shooters. Men, women, and children that had never really thought about ever participating in an organized shooting event. An event that for most of them is absolutely free. For some, the marksmanship skills spark an interest in moving on to NRA and CMP competition. For others, the history is what they remember most. Hopefully all walk away with an appreciation for the sacrifices the Founders made in order to leave us this place we call The United States of America. And they realize that their freedom is not free and the responsibility of preserving the rights guaranteed in the Constitution is their hands.

Your average Appleseeder could never hope to compete in NRA High-Power with a .22 and brick of ammo and a Camp Perry veteran might be bored with the shooting at an Appleseed but he just might learn some history. NRA, CMP, and Appleseed are all playing the same game. Just different squads on the same team. Getting people to the line is what counts!

Mike
MN State Coordinator
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