Del-Tone Closed. ?????

[Rip Van Winkle]

I like Del tone and the folks that run it, but the they are in this situtation becuase they got sloopy on the paperwork. I wish them the best. Just another reason to have competent legal council before you need it.

Make no mistake, they are in this situation because of safety issues. Sloppy paperwork is only the excuse used by the council to close them down, if the paperwork had been in order they would have found another reason.

Unfortunately, most of the shooting ranges in this area (upper midwest) were built 40+ years ago. At that time little if any thought was given on buying land around the impact areas for a buffer zone for encroaching development. Del-Tone isn't the only club going through this.

Also, the Range Protection Act only protects ranges from being closed down from noise concerns, it does not protect them from safety issues. If your club doesn't have a couple thousand yard buffer zone and you can see blue sky from any firing point, you have safety issues.

[ttousi]

However, the key points are that if there is a safety issue they have an opportunity to correct it. Also, as I understand it, they have the ability to move the conflict into the court system thereby moving it out of the "political" realm

http://law.justia.com/minnesota/codes/85/85-87a.html

applicable portion

87A.07 Closure of shooting ranges.

Subdivision 1. Closure. Except as otherwise provided in sections 87A.01 to 87A.08, a shooting range that is in compliance with shooting range performance standards and the requirements of sections 87A.01 to 87A.08 shall not be forced to permanently close or permanently cease any activity related to the primary use of the shooting range unless the range or activity is found to be a clear and immediate safety hazard by a court of competent jurisdiction. In any action brought to compel the permanent closure of any range in compliance with shooting range performance standards and this chapter, or to permanently cease any activity related to the primary use of the shooting range, there is a rebuttable presumption that the range or activity is not a clear and immediate safety hazard. If the shooting range provides evidence that the cause of a proven safety hazard can be mitigated so as to eliminate the safety hazard, the court shall not order the permanent closure of the range, or permanent ceasing of the activity found to be a clear and immediate safety hazard, unless the range operator fails to implement the necessary mitigation to remove the safety hazard by the date that is determined reasonable by the court.

[Rip Van Winkle]

However, the key points are that if there is a safety issue they have an opportunity to correct it. Also, as I understand it, they have the ability to move the conflict into the court system thereby moving it out of the "political" realm

Yep, if the club/range has deep enough pockets they have the opportunity to fix their safety issues. The problem is once news gets out about a problem all the usual suspects come out of the wood work to pile on and make sure any fix is so onerous as to make it financially unfeasible. Sadly, the longer a range is closed the less likely it is it will ever open again.

Moving the conflict from the political realm into our politicalized judicial realm isn't an improvement.

[bullets]

Gun club's permit scrutinized
By Kirsti Marohn • kmarohn@stcloudtimes.com • August 20, 2010

http://www.sctimes.com/article/20100820 ... rutinized-

[Rip Van Winkle]

Part two of the series.
http://www.sctimes.com/article/20100821/NEWS01/108210001/Part-two-of-two-part-series-Local-shooting-range-s-neighbors-have-concerns

[mmcnx2]

While I agree there is a lot of politic positioning on this issue, the letter I got from Del Tone asking for my support clearly admitted the range use paperwork did not match the actuall range use. They felt that it had been going on for so long it was not an issue, however as we all know, past practice has little to do with current capabilities.

Again I hope they are successful, but from a strickly business stand point, they did not do the proper leg work on compliance and are now playing catch up.

[effendude]

I attended the meeting regarding the new Conditional Use Permit for Del-Luth last week. A full briefing by the county, and discussion by the planning commission, range users, and citizens, resulted in the CUP being recommended for the County board to discuss and approve it in Sept.

Part of the county atty's case was (3) You-tube videos, one which clearly showed a bullet leaving the property after skipping off a side berm. As a life member of the NRA, a competitive shooter and a gun club officer, I was shocked at the behavior caught on film.

The Del-Luth range continued shooting handguns on their range after the county notified them in 2006 they were in violation of the original CUP. Del-Luth applied for, and then withdrew the CUP revision in 2006. Both bad decisions.

The MN statute 87-A that protects gun clubs does so only if they are safe and abide by all conditions of their operating licenses as set by the governing authorities. Here is the key point to the law: The DNR was to have set the standards for safe operation of a shooting facility back in 2005 when the statute was written. The DNR never came up with any standards so they defer to the NRA. The NRA Source Book is the industry standard at this time for any club in MN.

The NRA has no approved competitive sports that allow action type shooting so that poses the first challenge. Second, no berm at Del-Luth was to NRA specifications, and although improvments were made to the berms as issues arose in the past, it was apparent no professional services regarding berm construction were utilized. Third, Del-Luth had a long history of safety issues with its neighbors, whether real or imagined. A woman was struck in the face with a bullet that most likely came from Del-Luth, and she is lucky to be alive. Someone fired the bullet, and guess who is blamed.

We, as shooter and gun owners, need to get more safe or we won't shoot anywhere. If a shooter's behavior endangers the facility, they have no right to shoot. The second amendment doesn't guarantee us a place to shoot so lets not blow it....

[DeanC]

I was shocked at the behavior caught on film.

Since we implemented range attendant shifts at Elk River I am astounded at the amount of stupidity that has occurred when people think nobody is watching.

[recoilguy]

I got a letter from the local gunrange in Willmar asking who ever has been coming in after dark using theur headlights to light upthe range and shoot at night to please knock it off.......

That kind of thing gets ranges shut down. The Del=Tone situation was a big topic of discussion at St. Cloud SPASA over the last month. I wish them luck, but hope they learn to keep things in order.

RCG

[Hmac]

Isn't DelTone the range where a 9mm round escaped down range and hit a woman in the face?

[ttousi]

Isn't DelTone the range where a 9mm round escaped down range and hit a woman in the face?

allegedly .........

much more to that story.......which seems full of holes

[ttousi]

triple taps removed

[effendude]

WTF? "

allegedly .........

I'm a new guy here, but this attitude will get every range in the country shut down. The family whose property was struck with more than 20 documented projectiles over the years has every right to expect to be safe on their property. The woman was struck in the face with a 9mm handgun round. It was at the end of its trjectory and had little power left or it would have killed her. The bullet was found in a flower bed behind where she was standing. Maybe if she was killed, we wouldn't be saying "allegedly". The county has over 300 pages of reports and investigations regarding off property incidents over many years near the Del-Luth range. The defense that it came from a neighbors doesn't hold any water. Del_Luth was running a disaster of an operation. Everytime an off-property incident occurred, they showed up with an envelope of cash to help rectify the situation. This was discussed at the county hearings.

Any club or shooting facility that potentially allows ONE projectile to leave their property is operating unsafely. Any of you posers and psuedo SWAT/Commando guys who can justify unsafe behavior because it is fun to shoot fast and run around and pretend to be an expert need to find a gravel pit up north somewhere. Far from my property. Think about it. When was the last time a new gun range was built here in MN? How many golf courses were built during the same time period? We had better protect what we have, because we are not getting anymore.
Scott

[jgalt]

WTF? "

allegedly .........

I'm a new guy here, but this attitude will get every range in the country shut down. The family whose property was struck with more than 20 documented projectiles over the years has every right to expect to be safe on their property. The woman was struck in the face with a 9mm handgun round. It was at the end of its trjectory and had little power left or it would have killed her. The bullet was found in a flower bed behind where she was standing. Maybe if she was killed, we wouldn't be saying "allegedly". The county has over 300 pages of reports and investigations regarding off property incidents over many years near the Del-Luth range. The defense that it came from a neighbors doesn't hold any water. Del_Luth was running a disaster of an operation. Everytime an off-property incident occurred, they showed up with an envelope of cash to help rectify the situation. This was discussed at the county hearings.

Any club or shooting facility that potentially allows ONE projectile to leave their property is operating unsafely. Any of you posers and psuedo SWAT/Commando guys who can justify unsafe behavior because it is fun to shoot fast and run around and pretend to be an expert need to find a gravel pit up north somewhere. Far from my property. Think about it. When was the last time a new gun range was built here in MN? How many golf courses were built during the same time period? We had better protect what we have, because we are not getting anymore.
Scott

It is "alleged" until proof has been provided. Nothing I have seen or heard about this particular instance proves to me that the bullet came from the range, nor has the range been proven to be at fault by any portion of the legal system. Had the woman been killed, we would still be using the term "allegedly" until such time as the accusation had been proven true. Its really a simple concept and the term was used correctly - no need to get your panties in a bundle.

Any club or shooting facility that potentially allows ONE projectile to leave their property is operating unsafely.

Really? You want to use that statement as the standard every "club or shooting facility" in the country must meet? You aren't really a fan of any outdoor range that isn't situated in the middle of at least 8-10,000 acres then, eh? Maybe it is attitudes such as yours that explains why gun clubs are built so rarely...

[bensdad]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win ... nce_People