Winchester Ranger T?

[minnesotatv]

I just order a box of ranger t for my glock 30 from sgammo.com. I'm planning on carry those with my carry gun. I want to know what kind of self defense rounds you guys carry.

suggest you test it for expansion and penetration, through YOUR pistol, before
you rely on it to save your hide. some 230gr bullets perform poorly from short
barrels.

[FJ540]

I have a bit of strategy in my SD ammo . Thanks to the sound logic of Don Larson. I carry what the local police do... In my case, federal hydroshocks.

If I ever was on trial, and my choice of ammunition came into question (to many potential jurors hollow-point = cop killer), I could say:

I use what my local PD does. If it's good enough for them to protect themselves, it's good enough for me.

I'll say it again: If your trial comes down to which bullet came out of your gun - you're already walking the line between life and extra crispy.

[gyrfalcon]

...If your trial comes down to which bullet came out of your gun - you're already walking the line between life and extra crispy.

I think you're forgetting about the possibility of a civil trial after a criminal one...

[FJ540]

You made a premeditation to potentially resort to violence when you picked up your gun before leaving the house. If the bullet you loaded in it scares you in court - leave the gun at home.

[hammAR]

You made a premeditation to potentially resort to violence when you picked up your gun before leaving the house. If the bullet you loaded in it scares you in court - leave the gun at home.

+1 on that.........
In a Civil suit all of your shooting and gun history will be brought to bear just to show that you have been training to be a Vigilante.........

[timwarner]

.45 ACP ball................

still carryin the same ammo from wwII?

[hammAR]

.45 ACP ball................

still carryin the same ammo from wwII?

Haven't updated to that yet, waiting on the sale................

[vwj1987]

You made a premeditation to potentially resort to violence when you picked up your gun before leaving the house. If the bullet you loaded in it scares you in court - leave the gun at home.

I agree

[gyrfalcon]

You made a premeditation to potentially resort to violence when you picked up your gun before leaving the house. If the bullet you loaded in it scares you in court - leave the gun at home.

Heh, and I suppose you think it doesn't matter if you have a racial epitaph on your grips, etc. either. To each their own I suppose.

[bensdad]

Heh, and I suppose you think it doesn't matter if you have a racial epitaph on your grips, etc. either. To each their own I suppose.

Honestly, I think this sort of thing is light-years from bullet choice. If Rob's (and Don's, apparently) selection process helps them feel better about things, so be it. If anyone wants to argue the point beyond personal feelings, they aught to pony up with a documented court case or two.
Edited to remove my poor taste and bad timing.

[monschman]

Jeez bensdad, that was funny,

[bensdad]

Jeez bensdad, that was funny,

I know. The video is funny as heck, but in the context of this discussion it seemed pretty offensive after I thought about it. For the record, I buy two boxes of HP ammo at a time for my carry gun. One box gets shot, the other gets loaded and left. After about a year, I shoot it up and do it over. Right now I have a Federal product in my 40 and Winchester JHP Personal Protection in my 45. The Federal came off the shelf at Cabelas, and the Winchester came off the shelf at Walmart.

[monschman]

yeah, probably not the most suitable thing to put up there but, it did make me chuckle.
I am going to start another thread now, see you all there

[FJ540]

You made a premeditation to potentially resort to violence when you picked up your gun before leaving the house. If the bullet you loaded in it scares you in court - leave the gun at home.

Heh, and I suppose you think it doesn't matter if you have a racial epitaph on your grips, etc. either. To each their own I suppose.

I don't fear the day I stand before my God, or my peers (jury) for how I live my life.

You would've had a far stronger argument had you gone the route of inadvertent hits (misses or over-penetration), or something beyond the scope of an "overly lethal" round (is there such a thing that isn't also explosive?). Fridley PD even switches to ball in the winter because they've experienced lack of penetration with heavy clothing (which is opposite the claims that hydra-shok's plug up and drill under such circumstances). Civil cases for maiming the perp and creating a burden on their family would be more likely to be won from not killing the effer dead with an effective round in the first place.

If you want to base your defense on ammo type, you should first visit the caliber issue then - is your 9mm a humane round? Why would you carry a .45 when a .22 might "stop the attack"? That's what we all want right? - not to directly kill the guy, as that might be considered murder 1. Fearing any of these prospects coming out of the prosecution (or plaintiff's) lawyers mouth, again is reason to not pick up that gun in the morning. You do what you need to do to survive whatever life throws at you, and hope that other reasonable people feel you did the right thing or at least what you thought you needed to at the time.

This subject is a rather deep can of worms if you really want to go there.

Personally, I feel training, proper equipment, and the mental preparedness to take a life (if it comes to that) is a very good way to show I'm aware of the responsibilities that come with carrying a lethal weapon, and feel it will bode well for me in the event I'm ever put on trial.

[RobD]

Please note that neither I or Don ever said that bullet choice is going to save your ass in a self defense gun use.

I am with you guys where I think it is pretty much a non-issue. Don came up with his theory during the "Black Talon" fiasco.
Stock gun, no modifications (eg. 3.5# trigger = "hair trigger"), no "exotic" ammo. There's no cases I know of that supports the theory, but I think the logic is sound.

Do I think it will matter: Probably not.
Do I feel better having that little extra in my defense: Yes.