How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

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How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby jgalt on Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:51 am

According the the acting Solicitor General, during oral arguments in front of the 6th Court of Appeals:

If you don't like the mandate, simply earn less money...

:o

During the Sixth Circuit arguments, Judge Jeffrey Sutton, who was nominated by President George W. Bush, asked Kaytal if he could name one Supreme Court case which considered the same question as the one posed by the mandate, in which Congress used the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution as a tool to compel action.

Kaytal conceded that the Supreme Court had “never been confronted directly” with the question, but cited the Heart of Atlanta Motel case as a relevant example. In that landmark 1964 civil rights case, the Court ruled that Congress could use its Commerce Clause power to bar discrimination by private businesses such as hotels and restaurants.

“They’re in the business,” Sutton pushed back. “They’re told if you’re going to be in the business, this is what you have to do. In response to that law, they could have said, ‘We now exit the business.’ Individuals don’t have that option.”

Kaytal responded by noting that there's a provision in the health care law that allows people to avoid the mandate.

“If we’re going to play that game, I think that game can be played here as well, because after all, the minimum coverage provision only kicks in after people have earned a minimum amount of income,” Kaytal said. “So it’s a penalty on earning a certain amount of income and self insuring. It’s not just on self insuring on its own. So I guess one could say, just as the restaurant owner could depart the market in Heart of Atlanta Motel, someone doesn’t need to earn that much income. I think both are kind of fanciful and I think get at…”

Sutton interjected, “That wasn’t in a single speech given in Congress about this...the idea that the solution if you don’t like it is make a little less money.”

The so-called “hardship exemption” in the health care law is limited, and only applies to people who cannot obtain insurance for less than 8 percent of their income. So earning less isn't necessarily a solution, because it could then qualify the person for government-subsidized insurance which could make their contribution to premiums fall below the 8 percent threshold.


http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/06/obama-solicitor-general-if-you-dont-mandate-earn-less-money
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby Tommy Gun on Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:16 pm

It just keeps getting better and better. :roll:
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby JeremiahMN on Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:18 pm

You know this whole mandate idea was the republicans in the first place. :roll:

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/05 ... s-mandate/
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby jgalt on Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:43 pm

JeremiahMN wrote:You know this whole mandate idea was the republicans in the first place. :roll:

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/05 ... s-mandate/


A crappy idea is a crappy idea, regardless who came up with it ... and this is a monumentally crappy idea.
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby JeremiahMN on Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:49 pm

jgalt wrote:
JeremiahMN wrote:You know this whole mandate idea was the republicans in the first place. :roll:

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/05 ... s-mandate/


A crappy idea is a crappy idea, regardless who came up with it ... and this is a monumentally crappy idea.



I agree on that point, it was a crappy idea. It's like solving unemployment by telling people get a job or you'll get a fine. (Should have went single payer a long time ago) I just think it's funny how the GOP came up with the idea, and now that the dems went with it, all the sudden it's this unconstitutional, socialist idea. Probably more fair to call this the newt-mandate than the omaba-care mandate.
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby jgalt on Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:38 pm

JeremiahMN wrote:
jgalt wrote:
JeremiahMN wrote:You know this whole mandate idea was the republicans in the first place. :roll:

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/05 ... s-mandate/


A crappy idea is a crappy idea, regardless who came up with it ... and this is a monumentally crappy idea.



I agree on that point, it was a crappy idea. It's like solving unemployment by telling people get a job or you'll get a fine. (Should have went single payer a long time ago) I just think it's funny how the GOP came up with the idea, and now that the dems went with it, all the sudden it's this unconstitutional, socialist idea. Probably more fair to call this the newt-mandate than the omaba-care mandate.


No argument from me - I'm certainly no Republican...

And of course, there are a number of Republicans who are Socialists as well... ;)
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby traveler on Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:57 pm

Obama care is now the fault of the GOP.

I cannot wait until people get to re-writing the history of George Armstrong Custer. :rotf:

If you cannot win the argument then change the topic, ridicule the messenger, or say it's someone else's fault. :rotf:
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby jgalt on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:54 am

traveler wrote:Obama care is now the fault of the GOP.


While the history of the "individual mandate" clearly implicates an array of GOP big-wigs from the past couple decades, it is silly to claim they are responsible for the 2000+ page monstrosity that is "Obama care". I know JeremiahMN does, but that's just a part of his charm and one of the many reasons we love him here. :lol:

The fact that many Republicans supported the individual mandate serves to illustrate how pervasive & unquestioningly accepted the core tenants of Socialism have become within modern culture. The mandate is only necessary, or supportable, for those who believe it morally proper to take by threat of force that which one person has produced in order to give it to another, regardless of the reason. Or put more succinctly - Socialists.
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby Dick Unger on Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:43 am

People with sick children and no health insurance or money don't have the leisure of debating about "socialism" . The "Obama" plan is hardly rational, but it's the only thing that could get through Congress. It'll change slowly, because it will have to.

Rather than debating old ideas about the philosphy of government, I wish folks could spend time with parents of sick children who have to rely on emergency room care, and be mailed ridiculously high but carefully coded medical bills that will never be paid anyway. Then they can tune in the news and watch the "educated leaders" of your country bleat cluelessly about this situation. :roll:
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby gunflint on Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:07 am

Individual mandate was a republican idea? Which republican? Lee Harvey Oswald was a socialist. So all socialists want to assassinate Democratic Presidents. Am I starting to think like a liberal now?

Dick,
It works both ways. There are people now in there 50s and 60s who have chronic / progressive diseases and will need surgery eventually who are hoping and praying that they will be approved for surgery before Obama care kicks in because once the decision goes to the government their death sentence will be final.
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby jgalt on Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:10 am

Dick Unger wrote:People with sick children and no health insurance or money don't have the leisure of debating about "socialism" . The "Obama" plan is hardly rational, but it's the only thing that could get through Congress. It'll change slowly, because it will have to.

Rather than debating old ideas about the philosphy of government, I wish folks could spend time with parents of sick children who have to rely on emergency room care, and be mailed ridiculously high but carefully coded medical bills that will never be paid anyway. Then they can tune in the news and watch the "educated leaders" of your country bleat cluelessly about this situation. :roll:


Well, if the people with sick kids & no health insurance don't have the leisure of considering the consequences of their situation on others, why the hell should those others give a **** about them? You know, the folks who are paying for their sick kids care, despite the fact they don't know them, and have expenses of their own to take care of - often including their ownsick kids? It works both ways...

"Old ideas about the philosophy of government"??? So you consider discussions regarding different ideas regarding how best to live amongst each other to be "bleating"? WTF??? Who is it that is clueless about the situation again...?

:roll: :roll:
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby Heffay on Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:16 am

According to today's definitions, Reagan was a socialist.

It's clear we need to purge the party of moderates. Only through purity can we attain mastery!
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby jgalt on Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:19 am

Heffay wrote:According to today's definitions, Reagan was a socialist.

It's clear we need to purge the party of moderates. Only through purity can we attain mastery!


Yup, that's what I said... :roll:
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby gunflint on Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:22 am

According to today's definitions Obama is a failure. Clearly we need to purge the party of affirmative action idiots.
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Re: How to avoid Obama-care "individual mandate"

Postby Norsesmithy on Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:38 am

Government intervention in the medical and insurance industry is, in large part, the reason why medical costs are so high.

If one were to find a cash only practice (they do exist), one can get medical care that just about anyone can afford.

If you want to relieve the burdens of poor people with sick children, and maintain our country as an innovator in the medical field, what one needs to do is to pass tort reform, eliminate minimum coverage laws, and force insurance companies to compete on the national market.

Once these actions are taken, hospitals won't feel compelled to bill exorbitantly for basic care, knowing that most of their customers will generally either never pay (as in the emergency room only poor), or dismiss large portions of the bill, whether fairly billed or not (as in anyone with insurance).

You as an individual can also donate to medical charities.
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