Shutdown Halts Mental Health Check in Gun Permitting Process

[traveler]

Wouldn't you think that any sheriff receiving applications while the state is shut down (and thus the M.H. check can't be done) would just deny them?

… and make David Gross a very rich(er) man? If a denial gets reversed the sheriff picks up the tab. That is another of the wonders and beauty of our carry law. The hard and fast "30 day" rule is another beauty.

[jgalt]

Wouldn't you think that any sheriff receiving applications while the state is shut down (and thus the M.H. check can't be done) would just deny them?

Since we're a "shall issue" state, a permit can only be denied if there is a cause to do so. Absence of evidence of mental health problems (i.e. the inability to check one potential 'red flag' area) is not a cause to deny, would be successfully challenged in court, and would therefore cannot be used as a reason for denial.

[Dave Pendleton]

Wouldn't you think that any sheriff receiving applications while the state is shut down (and thus the M.H. check can't be done) would just deny them?

Since we're a "shall issue" state, a permit can only be denied if there is a cause to do so. Absence of evidence of mental health problems (i.e. the inability to check one potential 'red flag' area) is not a cause to deny, would be successfully challenged in court, and would therefore cannot be used as a reason for denial.

I wasn't aware of the sheriff having to pick up the court costs (if any), but this was kind of my point. The threat of having to pay court costs doesn't seem to bother Ramsey County all that much, though.

I was just speculating that a sheriff might use this as a stalling tactic, knowing full well that the permit would eventually be granted.

[Andrew Rothman]

The permit IS granted, by law, on day 30, unless a denial letter is sent.

[tman]

Wouldn't you think that any sheriff receiving applications while the state is shut down (and thus the M.H. check can't be done) would just deny them?

Since we're a "shall issue" state, a permit can only be denied if there is a cause to do so. Absence of evidence of mental health problems (i.e. the inability to check one potential 'red flag' area) is not a cause to deny, would be successfully challenged in court, and would therefore cannot be used as a reason for denial.

Reality check:

I could see a sheriff denying a permit on the absence of the MI check. It buys the sheriff a ton of time to wait for the state to get its **** together.

The sheriff sends a denial letter, just under the 30 day time limit. The permitee then has to appeal. If the sheriff,meantime, can get the MI info and "re-evaaluate the application, he can then issue the permit, WITH NO PENALTY. There has to be a written finding by a judge in order to make the sheriff pay....

[jgalt]

Wouldn't you think that any sheriff receiving applications while the state is shut down (and thus the M.H. check can't be done) would just deny them?

Since we're a "shall issue" state, a permit can only be denied if there is a cause to do so. Absence of evidence of mental health problems (i.e. the inability to check one potential 'red flag' area) is not a cause to deny, would be successfully challenged in court, and would therefore cannot be used as a reason for denial.

Reality check:

I could see a sheriff denying a permit on the absence of the MI check. It buys the sheriff a ton of time to wait for the state to get its **** together.

The sheriff sends a denial letter, just under the 30 day time limit. The permitee then has to appeal. If the sheriff,meantime, can get the MI info and "re-evaaluate the application, he can then issue the permit, WITH NO PENALTY. There has to be a written finding by a judge in order to make the sheriff pay....

Reality check:

While I don't doubt that any Sheriff with disdain for the rule of law could follow the steps outlined above, it is still a denial of a permit without evidence of cause for denial. That said Sheriff could then issue a permit prior to getting his pee-pee spanked in court doesn't change the underlying facts...

[tman]

Reality check:

While I don't doubt that any Sheriff with disdain for the rule of law could follow the steps outlined above, it is still a denial of a permit without evidence of cause for denial. That said Sheriff could then issue a permit prior to getting his pee-pee spanked in court doesn't change the underlying facts...

I'm not arguing with you. You're right.

And it could be done anyway.

[tman]

Reality check:

While I don't doubt that any Sheriff with disdain for the rule of law could follow the steps outlined above, it is still a denial of a permit without evidence of cause for denial. That said Sheriff could then issue a permit prior to getting his pee-pee spanked in court doesn't change the underlying facts...

I'm not arguing with you. You're right.

And it could be done anyway.

[jgalt]

Reality check:

While I don't doubt that any Sheriff with disdain for the rule of law could follow the steps outlined above, it is still a denial of a permit without evidence of cause for denial. That said Sheriff could then issue a permit prior to getting his pee-pee spanked in court doesn't change the underlying facts...

I'm not arguing with you. You're right.

And it could be done anyway.

[Thunder71]

Never realized how many attorneys and court experts we had on here.

[farmerj]

Never realized how many attorneys and court experts we had on here.

For some it's been an expensive lesson learned.

[tman]

Never realized how many attorneys and court experts we had on here.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic here.

Some of the members here ARE attorneys, some are law enforcement (me) and have some experience with the practical application of the statutes in a court room setting.

Some members here have certainly learned about laws the HARD way..

[Edward]

Is the shutdown of the mental health check valid grounds for refusing to issue or deny (e.g. simply not respond to) a permit to purchase application pending for more than the 7 day statutory limit?

[tman]

Is the shutdown of the mental health check valid grounds for refusing to issue or deny (e.g. simply not respond to) a permit to purchase application pending for more than the 7 day statutory limit?

That's the million dollar question. Short answer? Dunno.

[mmcnx2]

Why is it when the media is looking for a voice to represent carry instructors Joe always seems to be the guy they quote. Can't we get a spokesperson that has a clue? I vote for Andrew.