Ruger SP101 snub: Small revolvers and subjective recoil?

[yuppiejr]

Just an observation I didn't expect to have today...

I made a trip to the range with a 2" Ruger SP-101, a 4" S&W 66, and a 7.5" Ruger Redhawk 44 Magnum revolver... Along came a variety of powder puff .38 reloads, full power .357 factory (125 HP and 158 grain SP) loads, some 44 Magnum commercial reloads and the big finale of some Buffalo Bore 44 Magnum +P+ 340 grain hard cast.

The 4" full size (K/L frame, GP100) .357 is a favorite of mine with pretty much anything you can load in the gun.. plenty of meat in the grips to hold on to and enough weight to soak up some of the recoil of hotter .357 loads.... performed as expected.

The 7.5" Redhawk was an unknown as I haven't shot more than a box of .44 Magnum before... and only in 9-12" Super Redhawks. Surprisingly it wasn't bad, the Redhawk is a large and front heavy revolver which soaks up recoil like a champ... first time out I kept most shots on the 6" circle target though it was hot enough that sweat was screwing with my grip on the gun which showed on paper. The Buffalo Bore +P+ cartridges, while stout, were not the insane hand-destroying experience I expected and again I managed to stay on a 6" target @ 62 feet/21 yards with the ones I shot.

The Ruger SP101 threw me for a loop... it's a great gun to "test drive" in the store and seems like the perfect combination of weight and stopping power on paper but the grip angle and STRONG-hitchy DA trigger pull made for an unpleasant shooting experience. It's only 10 or so ounces lighter than a 4" K-frame (call it 33%) and I expected more felt recoil... but even the puffball .38's (3-4 gr of Bullseye under 125-158 grain lead and plated bullets) seems to transfer an excessive amount of recoil back into the hands and .357's were nearly uncontrollable with a strong tendency to torque vertically almost like a drill bit catching and twisting the drill out of your hands. A friend who was also shooting a .44 Magnum out of his own pistol (Super Redhawk 9") tried the SP-101 and he handed it back after only 3 rounds of .357 magnum shaking his head. The same ammunition in the Smith 66 was anywhere from completely mild to stout but controllable.

If I had to choose between 20 rounds of Buffalo Bore +P+ out of the Redhawk or 20 rounds of 125 grain HP's through the SP-101 I'd take the .44 Magnum/Buffalo Bore any time, it was that brutal.

The point to this story of wheelgun madness is.... beyond the "thrust to weight ratio" differences on paper the SP-101's felt recoil seemed out of proportion compared to anything else I shot today... it's one of the heaviest 2" snubs in it's class and I was totally unprepared for how much of a hammer-to-the-hand it ended up being. Rather than blame the gun I'm wondering if there are different techniques required to shoot these little demons or, perhaps, a significant improvement to be had with some fuller grips? Does anyone own one of these and care to comment on technique or grip changes they had to make to tame the little monster?

[ammosponge]

first and foremost...get a hogue monogrip. I've got a sp101 2". and after the first range trip with stock grips, I was ready to ditch it myself. I put a hogue on it and while its nowhere near as pleasant to shoot as my 6" security six or my rhino, it becomes a heck of a lot more controllable and pleasant to shoot.

[tim]

My little J frame is brutal with factory. 357 ammo. I would much rather shoot my buddies 500 than the little J frame, although the 38+P isn't too bad.

[CashFan]

I have a 2 1/4 in sp 101. I found the rubber hogue grips to provide a much better grip than factory and also absorb some recoil.

38's are a breeze, as are 110 gr 357, 158 gr 357 can be a bit much if I'm not ready for them though.

I've been trying different positions with my hands to better control the recoil, but haven't come to any conclusions yet.

[yuppiejr]

Looks like the monogrip is on sale at Midway, I'll pick one of those up along with a Wilson spring tuning kit to see what can be done with the trigger before I have a smith have at-it, figure $10 is worth a try. Thanks for the suggestions!

[rukwikenuf]

i've seen those small frame 357s reduce the biggest men to tears. more specifically, the S&W Model 360. it's too damn light for that power!
however, i will agree, the SP101 with .357 is a lot to handle. not really too much, but it's just barely more than unpleasant

[Drizzle]

I generally carry a 642, but this past weekend shot a two inch Model 10 at the steel shoot. The Model 10 is not quite twice the size and weight of the 642, but that makes it handle so much better.

My dad had an SP 101 hammerless snubbie, but mostly carried 38 +p rounds in it, and that was a heavy unwieldy piece. Weighed about as much as my M10, but had none of the sleekness or slim feel of it.

You can't quite pocket carry an M10, but I'd carry an M10 with a cylinder full of +p rounds before an SP 101. With the exception of the Blackhawk and Super BH revolvers, Rugers have always felt like boat anchors to me. Good luck if you like them, but they're not my cuppa tea.

[Stradawhovious]

Does anyone own one of these and care to comment on technique or grip changes they had to make to tame the little monster?

I had a SP101..... I was touching off some of Pat Cannon's .357 reloads at Bill's one day, and actually had the RO come out to make sure "everything was OK" which gives you a clue as to how much Oooomph those things have.

Small revos and hefty loads are always a handfull. My recommendation is to go a grip like this on the J frame sized wheelies.....

jframegrip.jpg (23.21 KB) Viewed 5801 times

It made it much easeier for me to handle hot loads in small revolvers, and made my shot placement much more consistent.

[JJ]

i've seen those small frame 357s reduce the biggest men to tears. more specifically, the S&W Model 360. it's too damn light for that power!
however, i will agree, the SP101 with .357 is a lot to handle. not really too much, but it's just barely more than unpleasant

Pssht

I carry a 360, my wife used to. Tutz is 5ft and 130 and she can handle it just fine. is it a fun range toy? No. But it is manageable.

Those who can't handle it generally are A) Nancies, or B) are too stupid to adjust their grip.

I don't enjoy plinking with it, but I have no worries about using it in a SD situation.

Strad beat me to it, but it's all about the grip.

[yuppiejr]

Hmm, I can see where having grown up shooting semi-autos is working against me, my grip has both thumbs on one side to avoid the slide that isn't there... durp.

Guess I have some reading/research to do on proper revolver handling - any instructors in town interested in some one-on-one lessons? I swear I'm not a terrible student...

[ijosef]

Small revos and hefty loads are always a handfull. My recommendation is to go a grip like this on the J frame sized wheelies.....

jframegrip.jpg

It made it much easeier for me to handle hot loads in small revolvers, and made my shot placement much more consistent.

I like that grip for wheelguns too, but in my ignorance I'll sometimes forget and grip one of my autos like that. Ouch! I hate the slide cut on the top of the thumb!

As far as recoil goes, it's always larger/heavier/longer tube = less felt recoil for me. I think most of us here are in the same boat. I'm also a lover of Hogue grips, so I guess I'm not adding anything new to the conversation.

[Pat Cannon]

first and foremost...get a hogue monogrip. I've got a sp101 2". and after the first range trip with stock grips, I was ready to ditch it myself. I put a hogue on it and while its nowhere near as pleasant to shoot as my 6" security six or my rhino, it becomes a heck of a lot more controllable and pleasant to shoot.

Pretty much my exact experience.

And now I must post this picture again -- a max .357 load being shot in cushy Hogue comfort:

[Countryfried Frank]

+1 for Hogue. I have a Monogrip on my model 60 and it makes .357's very tolerable. Mrs. C refused to shoot it before I put the new grip on.

[Ranger01]

Bigger/heavier/shorter barrel= less felt recoil
Smaller/lighter/longer barrel= more felt recoil

Longer barrel= higher velocity, meaning more recoil.

Also I have to say for the guys shooting full house magnum loads out of L/K/J (especially) frame S&Ws to be careful. Those revolvers were primarily designed for police officers and were therefore not designed for a steady diet of magnums. They were designed to be carried with magnums and practiced with using lighter loads and will eventually shoot themselves out of time if you shoot too many magnums out of them...

On a more on topic note, I like N frame .357 revos. My first handgun was a 6" 627 and my current revolver is a 3.5" M27-2... I'm planning on shooting some keith loads (.38 spcl loaded to more than .357 power) out of it (if I can get someone to load me up some, I have the data but no way to load em up), as well as some lighter/ heavier stuff and if anyone'd be up for it we could compare those in a few different guns at some time (well most likely barring the keith load, that will break a smaller gun from what I've read haha).

[yuppiejr]

Just a follow-up on this...

The SP101 platform is an interesting animal... The stock grips are pretty awful, even with a modified hold the pistol is almost uncontrollable with full power 125 grain .357's, at least for me. I like the weight and balance which should help offset the powerful recoil of full power loads... but there are some clear execution problems that I believe contributed to my negative experience the first time out at the range.

My $25 Midway bundle showed up yesterday and adding the Hogue grip made a HUGE difference in ergonomics but also further showcased how bad the stock trigger is... most alarmingly at the very last stage right before the hammer drops where it will occasionally "hitch" and require and extra hard pull to fire... or worse "lag" before the hammer drops.

I purchased the Wilson Combat tuning kit with the grip which includes a 10 pound trigger + 12 and 10 pound hammer springs and replaced the stock Ruger springs with both of the 10 pound units. I also took the opportunity to lightly polish contact surfaces and lubricate various contact points and plunger/spring areas that were adding to the "hitchiness" of the trigger pull. Lubcicating the areas in question is not possible by just dumping oil into the trigger assembly but the effort was worthwhile as it smoothed things up a LOT. Ruger's finish work on these leaves a lot to be desired and I actually had to file two large burrs off of the receptacle on the frame into which the trigger assembly locks to get it correctly reassembled.

With the new springs and lubrication/clean up the trigger is a lot smoother, a bit lighter and that last stage lag seems to be gone - I need to run some live ammo through this thing to ensure the lighter springs are providing adequate firing pin-primer ignition but will continue dry-fire practice to work the various components together which is also helping. Ruger would be well served to put Hogue grips on these out of the box and spending a bit more time with the basic fit/finish to vastly improve function of the firearm. Just adding lubrication at key contact points in the trigger group made a big difference along with the new springs, a few minutes cleaning up obvious burrs doesn't seem like a lot to ask in a revolver that retails for $500+ brand new.

I'll report back when I get back to the range (this weekend hopefully) to re-test with the new hold + grips and spring kit... thanks again for all the input and assistance!