Father badly beaten for trying to protect his daugher

[David]

What is it with this M.O. of surrounding people and kicking them unconscious? Where did that come from? It's weird. It seems less than human, like, animal mentality. Growing up, you had a beef with someone, you went toe-to-toe. None of this calling your buddies and doing most of the damage when the guy is on the ground, like a pack of hyenas. People like that should be treated the same way a rabid, dangerous animal is treated.

A close friend of mine was the guy (Macy's loss prevention) who got the same treatment during the one minor incident here during the Rodney King riots. A similar situation there, too, where someone is actually in the right or doing his job, rather than some sort of "beef." Just trying to protect someone, or stop a crime. They act like it was another gangster flipping signs at them or something.

I wondered about that behavior back then, and ever since. I won't say more for fear of having labels thrown at me.

Oh, I went to Valleyfair last Sunday, and I have to say it was quite pleasant, with no odd behavior of any kind. Of course, it was at 11:00 in the morning, and we left by 5:00, so perhaps going early in the day is what you need to do to have a nice experience there.

[ttousi]

.......doing most of the damage when the guy is on the ground, like a pack of hyenas. People like that should be treated the same way a rabid, dangerous animal is treated.

couldn't agree more

[cobb]

.......doing most of the damage when the guy is on the ground, like a pack of hyenas. People like that should be treated the same way a rabid, dangerous animal is treated.

couldn't agree more

In the old days, in a fight and a guy went down, the fight was over. There will be some name calling, challenges made, but if one of the fighters was down and staying down, the fight was over.

All rabid animals should be remove from society. Read between the lines and take it for what it is worth.

[Aceq2jot]

It looks to me like the lawyer for the victim needs to gain access to Valley Fair's security policies. They had identifiable threats to security but did not take action to remove these threats from the park. Perhaps they do not expel people who arrive at the park in a bus? Somewhere they have a written policy, and somewhere there is language which discourages their security people from expelling trouble-makers. And when they find that document they will have found their one million dollar sheet of paper.

What is an identifiable threat?? And have you ever Written a procedure manual??

Basically stereo typing will get you a law suit, and harassing pople for the way they are dressed, skin colour, or ethniticity is illegal and will get you a big law suit faster than you can kick them out of the door. So again what is a threat ? Prehaps until they slapped the girl on the buttocks they were behaving and did nothing wrong, kicking them out i am sure would some how violate thier constitutional rights.

And when you write a procedure manual you maker sure that leave anything out that could be used in a law suit and then it gets read and approved by the companies legal dept to make sure there is nothing in there that could be used as something that could be discrimitory.

When they know of a threat but do not take action you are more liable than if you do not know. When you know of a threat and have a written policy that prevents you from taking meaningful steps, then you become REALLY liable.

Look at Minnesota case law of the manager of foxmoor at the M.O.A several years ago who was getting her arse kicked and security repsonded and called the police. She went on to sue the Security and the M.O.A for not intervening. She lost due to the fact they acted resonably and called 911 and seeing as they were not trained to act further than that. So basically trying to hold the Fair liable is a croc and would not fly as. The peeps there are Security and trained Emt's, who make a pittance actrually a non English speaking immigrant makes more on 3rd shift guarding a empty office building So they are not trained or instructed to do anything other than call the people with the authority to do something, in a situation like this.

And one of the members on this board is a member of the security team out there, some of know who and others may not and if they have a matter to say on this it is thier choice but i highly doubt it as it is a work related incident and we all Know how some people are more than happy to take thier words and twist them and include where thye work

So i shall leave their name etc out of it.

[1911fan]

At times like this, one sorta wishes Paladin was a real guy.

[cobb]

At times like this, one sorta wishes Paladin was a real guy.

Man, does that date you.......

[Ramoel]

At times like this, one sorta wishes Paladin was a real guy.

Man, does that date you.......

I was thinking Roy Rogers...

[ttousi]

Never heard of em...............sounds like cobb has though

[xd9]

I was not there and can't speak for all the various factors involved....but this event does show the importance or situation awareness. Especially after confronting the groping creep. Again, maybe he was QUITE aware and it just happened. But it NEVER hurts to be aware of your surroundings and who and what is going on around you. Watch your 6.

[chunkstyle]

A few more tidbits on this: Seems many of the thugs have felony records (shocking, I know) for... wait for it... promoting prostitution. These weren't "wannabe" pimps, they were convicted pimps.

After Dad was hit, the 12 year old, the Mom, and the 2 older sisters tried to protect him, and the thugs beat them up as well. Tough guys. Real gentlemen, too.

I know it's a pansy French invention, but it seems to me that the best solution here would be the guillotine. In public, rotten tomatoes and all.

We don't lets dogs live after doing this kind of crap, and dogs are considerably more useful.

[Tutmos]

You should talk to your friend that works security at Valley Fair then because they're lying through their teeth in that Star Trib article claiming they've only had two other instances of violence this year. There were other assaults by very similar groups of hoodlums earlier in the same night and security knew about it because I watched them sprinting to get there just after someone else had been beaten up around 10:45 just after the fireworks back by the Imax building. With the fact the Valley Fair is lying about the frequency of assaults I'm getting a little concerned that this happens pretty often, not so dramatic but the molestation is common place.

What happens is the cool gangstas see some young girls they fancy and they just walk up to them and start putting their arm around them, groping and grabbing and follow them around the park while the girls try to walk faster or squirm away. A parent would be insane to let their daughters be at the park alone with a friend or even a group of friends.

Anyway this little snippet nobody mentioned from the Star Trib article really makes the situation even more murky about what should someone do in a case like that.

"Gildersleeve was convicted in March 2008 of carrying a pistol without a permit in a public place, a misdemeanor. "

I guess you'd have to drill all 8 of them.

[Aceq2jot]

[quote="Tutmos"]You should talk to your friend that works security at Valley Fair then because they're lying through their teeth in that Star Trib article claiming they've only had two other instances of violence this year. /quote]


Dude please read a little slower as no where in there did i say they have not had trouble there, or did i refer to the perrson telling me anything about what happens there. I mentioned a case at the M.O.A ( Mall Of America ) But nothing other than a member of this board worked there.

And i dont like the accusations that my friend is lying when there is nothing on this thread or any other to back that claim up.

The faqct is they are not to put themselves in harms way and are not paid for it and are not trained to did it and are screwed if they do as it is not in thier manual.

Both of my jobs i am compensated for suxch and trained in unarmed tactics, baton, chemical agent. And my part time gig i am qualified and insured to use deadly force with a firearm as well.

When it comes down to a court case cause the thug always sue's the first thing that gets asked is " what is your training" and if you answer with no training about the use of force, chem agent etc the question would be " why did you use force on my client when you are not trained in it and did not know what you were doing " That then leaves the company you are working for, out of the lawsuit and drops it all in your lap

And honestly why should some one making less than the Mexican flipping burgers at Micky D's endanger themselves.

[phorvick]

You should talk to your friend that works security at Valley Fair then because they're lying through their teeth in that Star Trib article claiming they've only had two other instances of violence this year. /quote]


Dude please read a little slower as no where in there did i say they have not had trouble there, or did i refer to the perrson telling me anything about what happens there. I mentioned a case at the M.O.A ( Mall Of America ) But nothing other than a member of this board worked there.

And i dont like the accusations that my friend is lying when there is nothing on this thread or any other to back that claim up.

The faqct is they are not to put themselves in harms way and are not paid for it and are not trained to did it and are screwed if they do as it is not in thier manual.

Both of my jobs i am compensated for suxch and trained in unarmed tactics, baton, chemical agent. And my part time gig i am qualified and insured to use deadly force with a firearm as well.

When it comes down to a court case cause the thug always sue's the first thing that gets asked is " what is your training" and if you answer with no training about the use of force, chem agent etc the question would be " why did you use force on my client when you are not trained in it and did not know what you were doing " That then leaves the company you are working for, out of the lawsuit and drops it all in your lap

And honestly why should some one making less than the Mexican flipping burgers at Micky D's endanger themselves.

Which is, of course, the root of the problem. "Security" people provide no security. Perhaps we should call them the "If you need to call 9111 and have no phone we can do it" personnel.

[Aceq2jot]

You should talk to your friend that works security at Valley Fair then because they're lying through their teeth in that Star Trib article claiming they've only had two other instances of violence this year. /quote]


Dude please read a little slower as no where in there did i say they have not had trouble there, or did i refer to the perrson telling me anything about what happens there. I mentioned a case at the M.O.A ( Mall Of America ) But nothing other than a member of this board worked there.

And i dont like the accusations that my friend is lying when there is nothing on this thread or any other to back that claim up.

The faqct is they are not to put themselves in harms way and are not paid for it and are not trained to did it and are screwed if they do as it is not in thier manual.

Both of my jobs i am compensated for suxch and trained in unarmed tactics, baton, chemical agent. And my part time gig i am qualified and insured to use deadly force with a firearm as well.

When it comes down to a court case cause the thug always sue's the first thing that gets asked is " what is your training" and if you answer with no training about the use of force, chem agent etc the question would be " why did you use force on my client when you are not trained in it and did not know what you were doing " That then leaves the company you are working for, out of the lawsuit and drops it all in your lap

And honestly why should some one making less than the Mexican flipping burgers at Micky D's endanger themselves.

Which is, of course, the root of the problem. "Security" people provide no security. Perhaps we should call them the "If you need to call 9111 and have no phone we can do it" personnel.

The officers there are all E.M.T'S so if you have a massive heart attack they will help you instead of letting you die while the Ambulance comes. <REMOVED>

Basically it all down to what you pay for is what you get. Now i am sure if you were to dig deep and Provide lots of money to businesses that have security to compensate the so they could pay a good wage, offer vacation, Decent medical, training and money to cover the insurance costs then it may be a diffrent world and you could get what you want. But some how i dont hink you are going to dig deep and provide the money .

They are not there to cater to you and make you happy cause you spent 50 cents in the store, they are basically there the look after the clients property and interests and at times provide medical assistance to the public and be a visible deterrent. They are not compensated to be a cop and get themselves in harms way or wipe some ones arse to make them feel better, and have very speciffic guidelines.

Now i suggest that people who dont htink security is worth anything to go and get some liability insurance ( cause you will need it ) and go out there and do what you want them to do

[princewally]

Which is, of course, the root of the problem. "Security" people provide no security. Perhaps we should call them the "If you need to call 9111 and have no phone we can do it" personnel.

The officers there are all E.M.T'S so if you have a massive heart attack they will help you instead of letting you die while the Ambulance comes. And as for Security people providing no security you are starting to sound like the Jew with a blogg and radio show.

Basically it all down to what you pay for is what you get. Now i am sure if you were to dig deep and Provide lots of money to businesses that have security to compensate the so they could pay a good wage, offer vacation, Decent medical, training and money to cover the insurance costs then it may be a diffrent world and you could get what you want. But some how i dont hink you are going to dig deep and provide the money .

They are not there to cater to you and make you happy cause you spent 50 cents in the store, they are basically there the look after the clients property and interests and at times provide medical assistance to the public and be a visible deterrent. They are not compensated to be a cop and get themselves in harms way or wipe some ones arse to make them feel better, and have very speciffic guidelines.

Now i suggest that people who dont htink security is worth anything to go and get some liability insurance ( cause you will need it ) and go out there and do what you want them to do

So, what you're saying is(I just want to understand), security doesn't provide security, and shouldn't, because they are underpaid, but they WILL dial 911 or provide medical assistance if necessary? And anybody who isn't in the (poorly named, by your logic)security profession who notices this is an *******?