Background Checks Compromise

[XDM45]

For the record, each and every one of you on here are my very best, closest, and personal best freind. So if I buy something from you, it's just between close friends, that's all.

Carry on.

Actually, I think this would become a reason for a monthly get-together for members of this board. I mean, once you've had a beer/cigar/coffee/bonfire/pancake/chinese food with someone - you're brothers for life!

In order to have a bonfire you have to burn wood. Lets assume that the wood you're burning came from a dead limb that fell off a tree in your back yard last year. If that limb hadn't fallen you might have purchased firewood to burn at the get-together. That affects interstate commerce, so the meeting is a commercial setting.

I think that's stretching it and it can be spun 1 thousand different ways.

[darkwolf45]

How are they defining commercial? Would the trade list on this forum or Armslist count? Common sense would tell me no, but you never know.

[mrp]

I think that's stretching it and it can be spun 1 thousand different ways.

Well of course I'm stretching it, but I'm only putting stretch marks on top of the existing stretch marks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

[photogpat]

How are they defining commercial? Would the trade list on this forum or Armslist count? Common sense would tell me no, but you never know.

It'll all depend on the definition of "online sale" or "commercial sale".

[xd ED]

How are they defining commercial? Would the trade list on this forum or Armslist count? Common sense would tell me no, but you never know.

It'll all depend on the definition of "online sale" or "commercial sale".

Yep, As always the devil's in the details.
It could be nothing, it could be a foot in the door of registration.

[rugersol]

If the Devilcrats want it, that's reason 'nuff fer me to oppose it!

[jdege]

Under the Manchin-Toomey agreement, background checks will occur for sales conducted at gun shows, online, and through public advertisements with full record keeping, which advocates see as essential for enforcement and tracing crime guns. Friend-to-friend and family sales will be exempt from the requirement.

Sounds like defacto registration to me.

Stabbed in the back by Rinos again.

The reason they care about keeping records on background checks, and not about ensuring that people who shouldn't have guns are in the system so that they can be failed, when background checks are done, is because what they really want is to reverse the presumption of innocence, when it comes to firearms possession.

Currently, because it is legal to obtain a firearm without generating a paper trail, simple possession of a firearm is presumptively legal. Make it a legal requirement that a paper trail accompany every firearm transfer, and possession of any firearm manufactured after the date of enactment becomes presumptively an illegal act, for which the existence of the proper paperwork would be an affirmative defense.

We already have such a system, with respect to NFA weapons like full-auto machine guns. And we have long had a running fight between NFA collectors and BATF, with regard to the ineptitude with which they have been maintaining the database. We have people in jail because BATF lost, or never bothered to enter, transfer records into the database.

Universal background checks with a record-keeping requirement would subject every gun owner to these risks.

[sansooshooter]

The government is getting very good at criminalizing the average citizen.
The more laws they pass , The less chance we have of being lawful citizens!
This is the first step in a gotcha law !

[damian_mb]

For the record, each and every one of you on here are my very best, closest, and personal best freind. So if I buy something from you, it's just between close friends, that's all.

Carry on.

Actually, I think this would become a reason for a monthly get-together for members of this board. I mean, once you've had a beer/cigar/coffee/bonfire/pancake/chinese food with someone - you're brothers for life!

Exact! Plus..... look at the bonus, I could be mocked in person for OCing BONUS!!

I have no issue with you OC'ing as my buddy does as well.....

I on the other hand conceal as much as I can...I mean a 1911 is just too big

[XDM45]

The government is getting very good at criminalizing the average citizen.
The more laws they pass , The less chance we have of being lawful citizens!
This is the first step in a gotcha law !

Well, the gotcha laws don't last.

Back in 1937, there was a marijuana law that basically said you needed a tax stamp in order to get marijuana; however, you had to have the marijuana before you could get the tax stamp. WTH? It didn't last. Of course the whole reason weed is illegal another story, but according to a show I watched on a cable channel, it was to get rid of the excess Mexican labor force, and because Dupont knew hemp is cheaper to make than nylon and it didn't want the competition. Of course there's other reasons too, but that's another thread, and those are the two main ones right there. My point is not about weed, rather it's about gotcha laws.

[XDM45]

I have no issue with you OC'ing as my buddy does as well.....

I on the other hand conceal as much as I can...I mean a 1911 is just too big

Exactly. One reason why I OC my XDm too, but I've covered that in a couple of other threads so.............

[Glenn_S]

Under the Manchin-Toomey agreement, background checks will occur for sales conducted at gun shows, online, and through public advertisements with full record keeping, which advocates see as essential for enforcement and tracing crime guns. Friend-to-friend and family sales will be exempt from the requirement.

Sounds like defacto registration to me.

Stabbed in the back by Rinos again.

http://m.ajc.com/weblogs/jamie-dupree/2 ... nd-checks/

When I read the proposal, the only reference to record keeping is what is done today. In fact, if this is accurate, there are a couple of really good things such as a PTC exempting us from a 4473, fixing the travel issues with states like NY, difinitive response clarification and shorter time period and allowing interstate handgun sales from dealers.

If it survives in it's current form, there will be minimal impact on most of us. And by the way, you ALL are my best friends, and may even be a distant cousin!

[Chunkychuck]

If it survives in it's current form, there will be minimal impact on most of us. And by the way, you ALL are my best friends, and may even be a distant cousin!

Unless the evolutionists are correct.

[jshuberg]

If I'm reading this correctly, there are a couple things that I think would be wins for gun rights.

* If you have a state issued carry permit, you wouldn't need to have a background check or 4473 form completed. Since a significant number of firearms are sold by dealers to permit holders, this would significantly reduce the potential for the government to collect firearm transfer records to create a registry in the future.

* Allows FFLs to sell handguns out of state, presumably without having to go through an additional FFL transfer process. This would reduce the complexity and coordination of having to bring in an in state FFL to perform the transfer.

I still don't have an overall opinion of this, I want to read the full bill and the analysis of legal experts, but on its surface it looks like this actually *is* a compromise bill, in that while it does introduce background checks to additional transfers, it's removes cumbersome processes and paper trails that we are currently burdened with.

[870TC]

looks like, if you have a carry permit and buy from a dealer....no NICS check but yes to the 4473.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/1 ... f=politics

Authorizing the use of a state concealed carry permit that has been
issued within the last five years in lieu of a background check when
purchasing a firearm from a dealer because background checks are
required to receive conceal carry permits.