10 Steps for Successful Open Carry Activism

[XDM45]

I could have written this article. It fits me to a "T" - except for the fact I DON'T OC for activisim. I OC because it's my perferred method of carry, but beyond that tidbit, the rest is right on for me.

http://www.gunnuts.net/2013/10/09/10-st ... ign=Buffer

[Ironbear]

I think he is asking some people to really move outside of their comfort zone with steps 1 and 10....

[bensdad]

Five and six are stupid. Gun grabs are as common as meteor blows to the head. When folks address this (gun grab idea) with a serious face on, I just assume they're Gecko and move to a different lunch table.

I also think telling folks how to dress is stupid.

That whole, "Don't be a [Richard]" thing seems solid though. I might try that...









Nah.

[Dave Timm]

Legitimately curious, because gun grabs are rare, and I agree there are rare, you're saying don't prepare for them either with training or equipment choice? There are a lot of things that are rare in our lives but we prepare for them none the less. I think not at least considering the what if is "stupid" (your term not mine). I don't know the statistic on OC gun grabs but I personally think everyone who carries regardless should be aware of retention and use a quality holster. When I teach courses we discuss gun retention as well as review retention techniques, both in and out of the holster, in higher level classes. As someone who has had someone try to grab my gun, I take the matter more seriously, my incident was while I was on duty as an LEO so I fully realize not apples to apples. However, it was an experience I will not forget and think anyone carrying a gun, LE or not, needs to be aware of and consider. Much like the retention of other EDC items, retention of your firearm is very important to me not only in practice but in training.

Also in regards to 6, retention holster, using a retention holster has a lot more benefits then just resisting gun grabs. I can tell you, as I have responded to them, that dropped gun incidents do happen. In my experience they were using a cheap crap holster or none at all. I feel that is more common then a grab and it could save the embarrassment of losing your gun. The most notable case I had was a gentleman carrying at our mall. Sat down on a lobby couch while family shopped, gun felt out of crappy holster and was left on the couch. Luckily a smart responsible person found it, called and we were able to track down the owner who was pretty ashamed of himself. I could only imagine the scenarios that could have played out. This isn't just good advise for people who OC, but cops too. There have been many incidents where cops loose their guns in bathroom stalls etc.

A quality retention holster can help prevent this along with proper training is a great platform against the rare gun grab.

We can certainly agree to disagree, my lunch table is full of like minded people .

Thanks, Dave

[jdege]

In my mind, the goal is to set up circumstances so that it's the hyperventilating fool who calls the cops on you who ends up looking like an a**hole, and not you.

[smokintone]

Five and six are stupid. Gun grabs are as common as meteor blows to the head. When folks address this (gun grab idea) with a serious face on, I just assume they're Gecko and move to a different lunch table.

I also think telling folks how to dress is stupid.

That whole, "Don't be a [Richard]" thing seems solid though. I might try that...

While gun grabs are rare, if someone is going to OC, they are being irresponsible if they don't learn some basic weapon retention skills, and use a retention holster.

As far as how one dresses, it may not be right, but most people will judge a book by it's cover. So it may be advantageous to look decent. I know that is highly subjective, but I think most people understand what that means. Does it make it right? not really, but it is what it is.








Nah.

[bensdad]

While gun grabs are rare, if someone is going to OC, they are being irresponsible if they don't learn some basic weapon retention skills, and use a retention holster.

Wow. Just wow. Let's see, things that cause WAY more deaths than gun grabs: pools, poisons, driving tired, being a cab driver, being a logger, biking, high school football, fast-food, secondary infections after surgery,

By your logic, being alive is irresponsible. By your logic, the guy who made my OWB holster is irresponsible.

How much "training" do we need before you grant us the holy blessing of RESPONSIBLE? Maybe the government should mandate what type of holsters we can use. If it saves just one undertrained, irresponsible person it'll all be worth it.

Show me the numbers about gun grabs. And, to steal a line from an old friend of ours, "If it's so easy to grab, I'll just grab it right back!"

[infidel]

Retention holster or not, bad guys can still get your gun. Situation awareness is most important.

[Dave Timm]

While gun grabs are rare, if someone is going to OC, they are being irresponsible if they don't learn some basic weapon retention skills, and use a retention holster.

Wow. Just wow. Let's see, things that cause WAY more deaths than gun grabs: pools, poisons, driving tired, being a cab driver, being a logger, biking, high school football, fast-food, secondary infections after surgery,

By your logic, being alive is irresponsible. By your logic, the guy who made my OWB holster is irresponsible.

How much "training" do we need before you grant us the holy blessing of RESPONSIBLE? Maybe the government should mandate what type of holsters we can use. If it saves just one undertrained, irresponsible person it'll all be worth it.

Show me the numbers about gun grabs. And, to steal a line from an old friend of ours, "If it's so easy to grab, I'll just grab it right back!"

No idea who the old friend is or what his experience is with gun grabs so can't comment there. I have had some first hand experience with this so my view very well could be biased. Likewise in training, and talking with colleagues who have had worse situations grabbing back doesn't appear to be so easy. If it was the sad statistic of officers being shot with their own firearm would not be as common as they are.

I think you are reaching a bit but I get your point. Even as I stated, I don't know the numbers, how many or how common it is. Of all the dangerous things you list which I agree, statistically they kill, but in all of those things there is probably more training, research, equipment prevention measures, warnings, etc than what goes into the average permit to carry holder considering weapon retention. We have pool ordinances, lifeguards, flotation devices and then we have poison control, labels, child resistant caps, and on and on.

I will say irresponsible was probably not the best choice, but for lack of better term, I still believe (me, my opinion) that if one open carries that should at least have a what if review. Sadly I have seen some people open carrying with no regard for this what so ever, these happened to be security, armored car drivers,and one PTC etc but it was just disappointing to see they had no awareness of the proximity of their firearm. We can argue retention until we are both blue in the face but at the end you will have your opinion and me mine. I am not saying every holster has to be a super lock thumb combination lock wonder whizz bang holster. I have several quality open top leather holsters. What I mean is that the holster is fitted for the gun, holds it securely keeping the gun from falling out and not ripping or tearing, again going back to the one size fits all cheap crap nylon junk holsters.

Anyways, best wishes to you. Fun conversation.
Dave

[smokintone]

While gun grabs are rare, if someone is going to OC, they are being irresponsible if they don't learn some basic weapon retention skills, and use a retention holster.

Wow. Just wow. Let's see, things that cause WAY more deaths than gun grabs: pools, poisons, driving tired, being a cab driver, being a logger, biking, high school football, fast-food, secondary infections after surgery,

By your logic, being alive is irresponsible. By your logic, the guy who made my OWB holster is irresponsible.

How much "training" do we need before you grant us the holy blessing of RESPONSIBLE? Maybe the government should mandate what type of holsters we can use. If it saves just one undertrained, irresponsible person it'll all be worth it.

Show me the numbers about gun grabs. And, to steal a line from an old friend of ours, "If it's so easy to grab, I'll just grab it right back!"

By your attitude, you should put your guns away!

[smokintone]

Also by your attitude. Having to ever use your gun to defend yourself is about as rare as anything else you mentioned. I guess we shouldn't get any training on how to use it properly and effectively right? It'll probably never happen.

"It'll never happen to me"

[bensdad]

Funny how the guy who says we need special training... just so happens to offer that training

My buddy Ken thinks it's irresponsible for anyone to finish their own basement. I'll give you three guesses what he does for a living.

[smokintone]

I don't care who a person gets their training from. Just because something isn't likely to happen, doesn't mean one shouldn't prepare or learn what to do if it does happen.

[Hmac]

Funny how the guy who says we need special training... just so happens to offer that training

So you're saying Dave's concern about people grabbing his gun is overstated so he can sell more spots in his training courses? Not really a valid concern?

[bensdad]

Enough playin. Retention is mission-critical. Both my rigs are specific to my gun (custom fit). I wouldn't do it any other way. Any training above the min. is a good idea. I've done gobs. Might be a good idea to keep an eye out for EVERYONE'S RIGHT to carry.

My personal opinion on the most important prep for someone who's gonna carry a gun? Find out how you deal with intense stress (human interaction) and seek to improve it. While I've never been in LE or .mil, I had a job for 13 years that involved very frequent, often physical stressful human interaction. There's a HUGE spectrum of how folks react to even minor violence.