Choices for A4 AR?

[Tronster]

So I've been wanting a 20" AR like I shot in boot camp years ago. It was the M16A2, but I see several manufacturers with flattop A4 20" rifles and I think the flat top will give me more options down the road if I ever want to scope it. The first two brands have just introdued A4's the other two have been around awhile:

Colt
FN
Armalite
BCM

The Colts I've read were using the incorrect non F marked front sight post and substituting taller front sight posts instead. Really, something as fundamental as that? Makes me wonder what else was "parts bin" sourced?
The FN initial reviews were indicating they were using 4040 instead of 4050 barrels, and other issues like RE materials and staking. Kinda hoped they would be CHF barrels.
The Armalite I've not heard any yay or nay about, and the one example I looked at was quality, except the front gas block is railed instead of an A front post, and not on the same level as the upper rail.
The BCM for all intents and purposes seems to be the closest 'milspec' A4 out there, listing all grades of materials used.

I'm not looking for a collector piece, just something that is built right and lasts a long time, and possibly hand down decades later. This will mainly be for bench shooting and a KISS rifle; no rails/bipods/muzzle brakes or other fancy stuff. They are all priced about the same, so should I 'pull the trigger' on the BCM since it seems the closest to milspec, or wait and see if the "BIG" name brands get things squared away and make a proper true A4 copy (minus the fun switch of course)?

[PHATSPEED7x]

Here are two more rifle to consider....

http://www.star15.com/20_star15.html

and...

http://www.del-ton.com/DTI_20_Rifle_p/rfth20f-0.htm

I personally owned an Double Star AR-15 rifle, and it was an excellent shooter.

Both are good rifles if you don't mind 1/9 twist, and non chrome lined barrels. Neither are deal breakers in my book. If I can get chrome lining, and 1/7 twist I would take it, but I wouldn't pay alot more money for it.

I currently own an Armalite carbine, and it's an excellent shooter. I'm sure their 20" barrel rifle would be an awesome shooter. You do get chrome lined barrel with the Armalite rifles.

Don't have any experience with the other brands, but with modern machining most guns are G2G...

[Hmac]

I would opt for the BCM. Known to be top quality. I wouldn't be concerned about the FSB on a rifle with that long a sight radius so I would also have no concerns about the Colt. If you define "milspec" as adhering to the TDP, then Colt will be closest, of course.

I'm inclined to avoid the consumer-grade rifles.

[Tronster]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some research about them.
My personal preferences are:

5.56 chrome lined government profile barrel
rifle length gas sytem
chrome lined M16 BCG
M4 feed ramps
pinned A front sight
bolt and barrel are HPT/MPI
standard GI trigger is ok
A2 handguards and A1/A2 buttstock

Budget is $1000-$1200. I'd prefer an all matching rifle rather than a frankenbuilt rifle.

[Tronster]

Yea, the more I search all the brand specs, the more I find the BCM following true to original design spec, unless someone knows of another brand thats top quality. This will likely be the second and only DI AR I can afford (the first being a 16" piston middy), so I need to make it count!

Colt doesn't seem to be very forthcoming in the details of what's in their rifle beyond the basics of twist, caliber, barrel length etc.

[Hmac]

The Colt is $1100 at G&R (excellent place to buy...utterly reliable).
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/co ... key=AR15A4

The BCM is about the same price
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/co ... A4-870-212

IMHO, it's a horse apiece. I'd probably go with the BCM myself, but it's a close call. I'd have confidence in either.

[Hmac]

Yea, the more I search all the brand specs, the more I find the BCM following true to original design spec, unless someone knows of another brand thats top quality. This will likely be the second and only DI AR I can afford (the first being a 16" piston middy), so I need to make it count!

Colt doesn't seem to be very forthcoming in the details of what's in their rifle beyond the basics of twist, caliber, barrel length etc.

Well, Colt owns the Technical Data Package (TDP). They wrote the design specs and still own them. All other AR-style rifles are reverse-engineered copies. Technically, Colt is the only AR that is "milspec" (whatever that is).

If you have questions or doubts, call G&R and ask Grant about it.

[Tronster]

I'm only leary about the Colt from hearing how they had key components for the civilian AR changed from the M16, such as BCG's and hammer pins and such. Curious if this still holds true today. I should contact Grant about this; I had been thinking I'd order from G and R.

[UnaStamus]

BCM makes their components exactly to mil-spec. BCM rifles could be adopted by the US Military today without issue. This is about all I'm able to disclose because of how I know this information. Just consider it to be first hand knowledge.

FN is also mil-spec now, and they currently hold the Army and USMC contracts for the A2, A4 and A5. Based on this, and the fact that FN will be making their rifles with the same components as with their MIL contracts, You would be fine with FN. FN also makes BCM's standard and BFH barrels.

I would have no hesitation buying Colt either. My agency uses Colt LE6921 carbines, and we just got two new ones in recently. The quality is consistent and of the 16 rifles we have, none have had any mechanical issues since we started using Colt in 2006. The only difference between the civilian models and the select-fire .mil models are the lower receiver and fire control group (receiver cannot accept select-fire controls). The BCG and all other components are the same.

If I were to get an M16A4, my first choice would also be for BCM. This is heavily because of brand loyalty to BCM because I know that they have strict quality control and only use the best components. BCM is among the best on market right now. Plus, their customer service is second-to-none.

Armalite's quality has been slipping over the years. Nothing too catastrophic, but they're not on par with the top tier companies like BCM, Daniel Defense and Colt.

[gman1868]

It sounds like you're looking for a good quality rifle. These two threads will provide a ton of information and pics.

Great explanation of all the bits and pieces, and more
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/342873_.html

Compares the different brands from best to not the best.
http://forums.officer.com/t81462

If you want a good defensive rifle around $1k or so, here are some suggestions. However, the vendors with good quality ARs get more expensive rather quickly, LMT and Noveske for example are getting closer to $2k and up these days. For that kind of money I'd be tempted to get a Robinson Armament XCR-L

Colt
S&W M&P 15
BMC
LMT
Noveske
Daniel Defense

[Tronster]

gman, thanks for the links, I knew much of it but learned a few more tidbits.

And holy crap the price really jumps up for the premium brand rifles! I'm sure they shoot like a dream. If I was going into harms way I'd consider it, but I'll be using it for recreational shooting, and want a quality rifle for any 'just in case' situation.

The BCM seems to be the group favorite for an affordable no questions asked quality rifle. When i get paid next I may just go for it.

[UnaStamus]

When you buy a rifle, you're paying for certain features. When you buy the hobby grade (lower end) or mid-grade rifles, you are typically saving money by omitting features that the top tier rifles include. When you buy top tier rifles, you are buying the total package. You have the best quality components, the most consistent and often the highest quality standards, and usually the best warranty. Essentially, you have the best base platform to work with. It doesn't always have to come down to "would I take to war?". It's often as simple as "buy once, cry once".

There are a couple philosophies that seem to pervade the AR world.
One is the "upgrade later" philosophy where people say they'll save money now by buying a low end rifle, and then just upgrade components as they go. In the end they spend a lot more money "chasing the dragon" as it were, and eventually they realize that they could have saved money and headaches by just ponying up more from the start.
As an example, let's say you want a Ford Mustang for a drag racing car. You can save money up front by buying a base model V6 and then just upgrade as you go to say, a supercharger, suspension, brakes, exhaust, etc. You wind up dumping another $20k into the car, when in retrospect it only would have cost you $10k more to just upgrade to a GT w/ 5.0 V8, and you'd have the same performance as you did AFTER dropping $20k on the V6.

Another philosophy is the "I'm not fighting with it" mindset. That doesn't matter. My wife hates that I drive a BMW because she thinks it makes us look rich, and we're not. Only rich people should own BMWs, and it gives a bad impression to people. I drive a BMW because I love to drive and occasionally track race, and this is my 3rd BMW. Wife has hated every single one. Her mindset is completely illogical (aside from just being a woman in general ), because I'm not a pro race car driver and I'm not rich. When I drive, I want the best driving car there is for my money, and IMO that's a BMW. Same thing applies to guns. You don't have to be professional gunfighter to have a reason to get a high quality AR. Just like you don't have to be a special ops sniper to own a Zeiss Hensoldt scope, or a competition shooter to own a $5000 custom 1911.

A third philosophy is the "just as good as.." mentality. People out there do contend that a Bushmaster or RRA is just as good as a BCM or Colt because they look the same and the primary forgings in the raw came from the same foundry, or whatever. Here's the deal, the Toyota Corolla and Lexus IS are essentially the same car. However, if you spend time in both, any person would conclude that the Lexus is a far superior car. When you know what to look for, you can see the differences between the good brands and the mediocre brands.

Lastly, there's the "my buddy owns ____ and he's never had a problem with it" philosophy. It's important to differentiate between anecdotal evidence and known reputation. Last summer at a shooting course a student was pretty confident in the performance of his new DPMS carbine; that is up until it went Tango-Uniform halfway through the morning of Day 1. The top level brands that have been presented (BCM, Colt, etc) have verifiable quality. Other brands are a lot more contentious.

Food for thought.

[Tronster]

At the gun show in roch last month I saw a DPMS 20" A3 pattern rifle for $825. It had the basic overall pattern i wanted but I wondered what justified a 50% higher price for a BCM or Colt. Looking into it more it comes from better components throughout, such as barrels, BCG, individual small parts, and better assembly QC. I'm sure a DPMS is fine for the occational plinker, but I want something vetted by those who run them hard in rifle courses or in duty use. I too subscribe to the buy once/cry once philosophy.

[Hmac]

A big part of a rifle's cost is the mfgr's quality control process. Some use specs that are more rigid than others. Price goes up when you're rejecting a higher percentage of components. DPMS would not be very high on the list of firearms that I'd happily own with confidence.

[johnlewjohn]

While I do not own one, Noveske is another great option for a robust SHTF rifle.
HK makes great rifles.
Knights
Barrett REC 7
I happen to own both a Colt 6920 and a 6921, or at least used to before I sold them.
Even those I personally upgraded and customized with things I liked.

Geissele trigger
Redi-mag
Rails
OPtics
Magpul Moe+ grips
JP Silent spring, (best upgrade imho)
EMOD stock

...some people don't like Colt because of their political stances in the past, but they do appear to have embraced the commercial market as of late.