2 teens killed after allegedly breaking into home;

[tman]

At what point should he have called the police? How about WHEN HE KNEW HE HAD A PENDING BREAK IN?


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[bstrawse]

It should be appealed. Check this link at kstp. Scroll down to bottom and read what the judge EXCLUDED from the trial.
http://kstp.com/news/stories/S3417138.shtml?cat=1
WHY?

Because it has nothing to do with the question at hand.


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[bstrawse]

Professor Joe Olson & Rep. Tony Cornish in today's strib:

http://m.startribune.com/?id=257261151

Unlike the Florida case that became a lightning rod on race and the boundaries of self-defense, the Smith case got national attention but never gained the traction some predicted among gun proponents.

Joe Olson thinks he knows why.

Olson is as big of a gun advocate as you will find. The Hamline University law professor has worked on behalf of gun owners at the Capitol for 25 years and written book chapters on self-defense. Olson is president of Academics for the Second Amendment and once served on the board of directors of the National Rifle Association.

But just before the verdict, I asked Olson about those who say Smith’s actions were justified.

“The only one who was really saying that was his lawyer, and he doesn’t really have any alternative,” Olson said. “It was clearly a bad shooting.”

Olson said that “everybody I talk to at the shooting range knows Smith crossed a pretty clear line. [The law] allows a homeowner to stop a felony in the home with deadly force. It does not allow a subsequent murder after the danger has passed. Anyone who has taken a carry permit course in Minnesota knows that.”

So, apparently did the jury, which quickly convicted Smith on all counts for the murders of Haile Kifer and Nick Brady.

Rep. Tony Cornish, R-Vernon Center, the Legislature’s strongest gun rights proponent, agreed that “justice prevailed.”

“It proves we do have a castle doctrine and it does work,” Cornish said. “If somebody tries to claim the doctrine in absurd times, it doesn’t hold.”

A website was set up after the shootings to collect donations for Smith’s defense. This week, it contained just one donation of $50.




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[TomS]

A lot of the information from the case can be found at http://www.mncourts.gov/?page=4959 including the recording in the house and interviews with the sheriff.

[Thunder71]

After hearing his whispers I couldn't bring myself to listen any further... I now understand the premeditated charge.

[Nougat]

oh well.

wasn't there a time when''your life'' included your property and belongings you had used your life to accrue?
so those that say his ''life'' was never in danger would at least be wrong?

major news printing it how they are is obviously wrong, but the guy did execute them after he had them disabled, right?

[Squib Joe]

Shooting somebody in the legs..then the chest.. then point blank under the chin. Sounds more like torture than self-defense to me. Something is wrong with this guy.

[gunsmith]

The perps interviews 1 and 2 are available at the mn courts link.....I wonder how this would have played out if:

A) he had remained silent.

B) not made that recording.

[Mn01r6]

He certainly provided the rope that they used to hang him with. Beyond a reasonable doubt is a very high standards to meet. He might have been able to get away with it if he hadn't talked, called the police right away and hadn't recorded the proof that he was a cold blooded murderer.

[LS3Miata]

The perps interviews 1 and 2 are available at the mn courts link.....I wonder how this would have played out if:

A) he had remained silent.

B) not made that recording.

it's possible a murderer may have walked. Fortunately he did talk and tape his actions.

[642rUS]

Proves the value of saying:
1. I acted in self-defense.
2. I do not consent to any searches of myself or my property.
3. I want a lawyer before I say anything more.
THEN, . . . SHUT THE F**K UP!

[hunterfreakhd]

Proves the value of saying:
1. I acted in self-defense.
2. I do not consent to any searches of myself or my property.
3. I want a lawyer before I say anything more.
THEN, . . . SHUT THE F**K UP!

Or the value to shoot to stop the threat and then don't shoot when the threat has ended.

[greenfarmer]

The more I think about this. And put myself into his shoes. In this situation. I know I would have waiting until they came down the steps further, and made sure you can get the job done with one or two shots.

But, putting myself in his situation, being terrorized by kids repeatedly, seeing them break into my house, stealing things I worked hard for. Seeing them break my windows or doors, coming into my home, over and over again. The sheriff department not doing anything about it. Other than filling out paperwork. But 5-6 times having kids break into my house, knowing it's probably these very same kids over and over again, because they have to be scoping my place out since my truck is gone, and they are breaking in within an hour of my truck leaving.

After thinking about it from his perspective.. Feeling violated, and helpless over and over, because this scum keeps breaking into my house... Keeps stealing my things. From my life... Things I acquired thru hard work... Being violated by drugged up or drunk kids, who are unstable to begin with, but adding mind altering or mood altering drugs only makes things 10x's more dangerous.

I have 4 words... SHOOT... SHOVEL... SHUT UP!

Scum like that breaks into my house over and over again, i'm sorry, but they deserved what they got when I put myself into his shoes. These two pieces of garbage think they can sit and terrorize someone like that. Repeatedly breaking into his house. His castle, his only safe haven, and steal things from him.. Stealing GUNS! and not knowing if they will use them against me... Screw it! They would die, and I don't care how many rounds it takes, or how many times with a ball peen hammer, or tube sock full of pool balls. You kids keep pulling that stuff on me, making me feel threatened, and violated like he did, and me having a wife and child in the house. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for those two piece of garbage or their rotten parents who haven't taught them any better. This is my house, and unless I invite you in, you better not cross that threshold on the door. And once you do, without MY PERMISSION you have now threatned me. And that's when you better be prepared to suffer the consequences.

[xd ED]

The more I think about this. And put myself into his shoes. In this situation. I know I would have waiting until they came down the steps further, and made sure you can get the job done with one or two shots.

But, putting myself in his situation, being terrorized by kids repeatedly, seeing them break into my house, stealing things I worked hard for. Seeing them break my windows or doors, coming into my home, over and over again. The sheriff department not doing anything about it. Other than filling out paperwork. But 5-6 times having kids break into my house, knowing it's probably these very same kids over and over again, because they have to be scoping my place out since my truck is gone, and they are breaking in within an hour of my truck leaving.

After thinking about it from his perspective.. Feeling violated, and helpless over and over, because this scum keeps breaking into my house... Keeps stealing my things. From my life... Things I acquired thru hard work... Being violated by drugged up or drunk kids, who are unstable to begin with, but adding mind altering or mood altering drugs only makes things 10x's more dangerous.

I have 4 words... SHOOT... SHOVEL... SHUT UP!

Scum like that breaks into my house over and over again, i'm sorry, but they deserved what they got when I put myself into his shoes. These two pieces of garbage think they can sit and terrorize someone like that. Repeatedly breaking into his house. His castle, his only safe haven, and steal things from him.. Stealing GUNS! and not knowing if they will use them against me... Screw it! They would die, and I don't care how many rounds it takes, or how many times with a ball peen hammer, or tube sock full of pool balls. You kids keep pulling that stuff on me, making me feel threatened, and violated like he did, and me having a wife and child in the house. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for those two piece of garbage or their rotten parents who haven't taught them any better. This is my house, and unless I invite you in, you better not cross that threshold on the door. And once you do, without MY PERMISSION you have now threatned me. And that's when you better be prepared to suffer the consequences.

Ground is pretty hard that time of the year…..
might need a plan 'B'

…like calling the cops to report the burglaries if/ when they happened,
...not recording the act when you execute someone,
...and not turning into Francis the talking mule after performing one of the most heinous acts in recent history.

probably some latitude in there for a plan to lead a normal, law-abiding existence..


Little Falls juror: Audio recording proved Smith plotted killings - TwinCities.com

"That was the most damning piece of evidence in my mind," Wes Hatlestad, one of 12 jurors, said Wednesday. "That audio recording of the actual killings and the audio recording of Mr. Smith's interview immediately after his arrest ... pretty much convinced me that we were dealing with a deranged individual."

Smith shot 17-year-old Nick Brady and 18-year-old Haile Kifer as they descended the stairs into his basement, where prosecutors say Smith was waiting. Prosecutors say Smith had moved his truck to make it look like no one was home, then sat in a chair at the bottom of his stairs with a book, energy bars, a bottle of water and two guns. He also set up a hand-held recorder on a bookshelf.

[jshuberg]

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe it's unwise to post on a public internet forum that you intend to murder anyone who breaks into your house.