1-4/5/6x Optics Owners Needed

[UnaStamus]

I am in looking at putting together an evaluation of 1-__x optics for CQB and midrange use, and I am looking for volunteers with low-powered riflescopes. This is in the early stages, but would require me to borrow optics from people for a short period of time. I would consider offering collateral to hold if it was needed. I plan on doing this at my agency's range, so I would also be open to owners coming along to participate in the evaluations if I were able to get enough optics.
I am also currently attempting to get T&E optics from a couple companies for legitimate LE use, so I figured that I'd like to be able to get a few other options in there for comparison. While I would have all of those, I figure that I'd throw together a write-up and video of the eval.

I would add that the optics I'm looking for are going to mid-range to high end optics. I am interested in people who have the following scopes (some that aren't available will be by the time I would do the eval):

Burris XTR-II 1-5x
Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x
Leupold Mark6 1-6x
Leupold Mark8 CQBSS 1.1-8x
Leupold VX-6 1-6x FireDot (preferably 3-gun version)
Nightforce NXS Compact 1-4x
Schmidt&Bender PMII 1.1-4x Short Dot
Steiner M5Xi/T5Xi 1-5x
Swarovski Z6i 1-6x
Trijicon AccuPoint 30mm 1-4x
Trijicon VCOG 1-6x
Vortex Razor HD-II 1-6x


At this point I'm not looking for people to give a hard "YES". Right now it's simply an "I'd be open to possibly helping out"

[rottenit]

I have a mark 6 1-6 you could try.

[gaberelli]

I would be ok with helping out with an SWFS SS 1-6x. Although not on your list, I find it to be a phenomenal optic driven mostly by the reticle design.

What area are you in?

ETA: I could also get ahold of a VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x as well.


Heinous typos thanks to autocorrect.

[BC98]

They're not on your list but I have :

Bushnell 1-6.5x Elite Tactical
Bushnell 1-8.5x Elite Tactical
Weaver Tactical 1-5x

I'd be willing to help if any off those are needed.

[UnaStamus]

I have a mark 6 1-6 you could try.

That would be excellent.

I would be ok with helping out with an SWFS SS 1-6x. Although not on your list, I find it to be a phenomenal optic driven mostly by the reticle design.

What area are you in?

ETA: I could also get ahold of a VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x as well.

I would very much be interested in the SWFA SS.
If you don't have a VX-R 1.25-4x, don't worry about sourcing one if it's any bit of headache.

They're not on your list but I have :

Bushnell 1-6.5x Elite Tactical
Bushnell 1-8.5x Elite Tactical
Weaver Tactical 1-5x

I'd be willing to help if any off those are needed.

I would be interested in those too, thanks!

I will let you guys know in the near future if this comes to fruition.

[Erud]

UnaStamus,
Do you work for a department that is actually considering spending the sort of money that some of these optics cost?

[UnaStamus]

UnaStamus,
Do you work for a department that is actually considering spending the sort of money that some of these optics cost?

Not specifically. I'm working on a DMR policy and there is potential for this to be implemented with several agencies statewide. The problem that comes in is that there are a lot of scopes that have illumination that are not daylight visible, and/or do not have magnification ranges that allows for functional use in both CQB and midrange overwatch/countersniper (i.e. not true 1x).
The issue is that we are split on whether we would approve specific models, or if we would just establish minimum criteria for the scopes. I want to develop a baseline of what the scope would need to have, but I also know that cops are some of the biggest cheapskates and would just assume to buy a Barska and deal with it so they don't have to spend Leupold or Trijicon money. The goal is to curtail that possibility by preemptively "shutting the door" on undesireable optics.

In the mean time, I am also interested in using this process to simply develop a decent evaluation of these types of optics because frankly, there isn't much out there that is very comprehensive.

[MNGunGuy]

I have a Razor HD II 1-6x with the VMR-2 mrad reticle you could try.

[shooter115]

You left out the best "bang for your buck" optic out there. The Burris 1-4x MTAC.

[UnaStamus]

Due to the recent release of the Burris XTR-II 1-5x, I opted to exclude the older MTAC 1-4x.

My goal isn't necessarily to get every 1-__x type optic since that really wouldn't be feasible for the purspose of what I'm trying to compare, which are the higher tier optics. The ones that I'm attempting to get T&E models of are all higher tier scopes, so there's no use comparing something like a MarkAR or MTAC with a VX-6, Mark6 or Razor HD Gen-II. It'd be a no-win situation for any of the lower tier optics. If you look at the optics reviews that experts like Ilya Koshkin and Jim Fischer do, they only compare optics of similar quality. Optics like say, the MarkAR or MTAC may be decent, but there's absolutely no way they can compare to top tier optics like many of the above for technical reasons.

I may at a later date consider doing one that is more "bang for your buck" oriented. I'm not entirely convinced that the VX-R Patrol should be on the list due to it not being a true-1x optic, but I included it because it's an optic that is listed on Leupold's LE/MIL Program price sheet.

[westhope]

I tried the Leupold 1.25 -4x VX-R and found I could not naturally use both eyes open. The 1.25 versus a true 1.0 low power was too much a difference between the eyes.

I have true 1.0 to 4 X and really love it on my AR. For me the 1.0 x works as well as my eo-tech for close shots.

[MNGunGuy]

Due to the recent release of the Burris XTR-II 1-5x, I opted to exclude the older MTAC 1-4x.

My goal isn't necessarily to get every 1-__x type optic since that really wouldn't be feasible for the purspose of what I'm trying to compare, which are the higher tier optics. The ones that I'm attempting to get T&E models of are all higher tier scopes, so there's no use comparing something like a MarkAR or MTAC with a VX-6, Mark6 or Razor HD Gen-II. It'd be a no-win situation for any of the lower tier optics. If you look at the optics reviews that experts like Ilya Koshkin and Jim Fischer do, they only compare optics of similar quality. Optics like say, the MarkAR or MTAC may be decent, but there's absolutely no way they can compare to top tier optics like many of the above for technical reasons.

I may at a later date consider doing one that is more "bang for your buck" oriented. I'm not entirely convinced that the VX-R Patrol should be on the list due to it not being a true-1x optic, but I included it because it's an optic that is listed on Leupold's LE/MIL Program price sheet.

The XTR-II looks nice and I was planning on picking one up until I saw it was exposed turrets only.

You may want to spend some time reading the multi-gun section of Brian Enos. What you're shopping for, scopes that are suited for CQB and 3-500yd shots, are exactly what 3gunners run. I'd place more weight on what a community of shooters are using vs what a couple of optics experts are writing about.

[UnaStamus]

I tried the Leupold 1.25 -4x VX-R and found I could not naturally use both eyes open. The 1.25 versus a true 1.0 low power was too much a difference between the eyes.

I have true 1.0 to 4 X and really love it on my AR. For me the 1.0 x works as well as my eo-tech for close shots.

I have all of about 5min behind the VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x, and I too absolutely did not like it. Leupold's biggest problem from the start has been their absolute inability to make a true-1x optic. The first ones were the Mark6/VX6 and Mark8.

The XTR-II looks nice and I was planning on picking one up until I saw it was exposed turrets only.

You may want to spend some time reading the multi-gun section of Brian Enos. What you're shopping for, scopes that are suited for CQB and 3-500yd shots, are exactly what 3gunners run. I'd place more weight on what a community of shooters are using vs what a couple of optics experts are writing about.

I know what you're saying, but Ilya Koshkin and Jim Fischer regularly consult with optics manufacturers. The Optisan CX6 mudskipper reticle was designed to Jim Fischer's specifications. There are numerous tactical scopes that have been modified because of what both have said. I'm not basing all of my info off of them, but my comments in the previous post were to reiterate that they do evaluations correctly by not comparing lower quality scopes with high end scopes. There's no way that a $360 scope with achromatic glass can even come close to competing with a $1500 scope that uses multi-coated apochromatic lenses with a more rugged shock isolation design.
You have to keep in mind too that while the multigun crowd has drastically advanced the optics market, they took over something that was already started. The concepts for most multigun scopes are based off of tactical combat-oriented optics like the Trijicon ACOG, Elcan Specter, Leupold Mark4 MR/T 1.5-5x, and so forth. They developed reticles that could be used with binocular vision in both day and night at close and intermediate ranges with ballistic ranging capabilities. The whole development has come full circle whereby it was started in the tactical community, proliferated in the multigun community, and returned to the tactical community with modifications. Everyone benefits. This is why you have companies that have consultants in all disciplines of shooting, ranging from competition to LE to military special operations to firearms instructors. They want the full rounded picture to reach the widest audience.

In fact, I actually have taken the multigun factor in account, because the "control standard" for my eval is the Leupold VX-6 1-6x Multigun. It sets the testing standard for true-1x, daylight visible illumination, good optical quality, durable construction and available optioning.

[collateral]

You mention the multigun influence on optics. You may have thought of this already, buy I would imagine you could see at least half of these optics at any given 3 gun match. It be worth stopping by as competitors would likely let you take a look thru their high buck glass at the safety table.

[Dave Timm]

Una,

You know you can shoot my anytime we can meet up. I have a trijicon accupoint 1-4 TR24 with green triangle, bushnell 1-6.5, and a vortex 1-6.

For patrol I am running my trijicon on my patrol rifle. Its bright fast and clear like an Aimpoint with magnification. Its simple which is a pro and a con. The green triangle is so easy big and bright to find just like an Aimpoint, however its a simple reticle with no ranging or BDC. It has the best daylight illumination if anything, thankfully you can dim it as it can get too bright in the sun. Another plus it's well made and of course no batteries to worry about. I haven't had any issues with the tritium at night in real word use.

The vortex was acquired for game use but it could easily be a patrol optic. It's built like a tank, no doubt its durable with the best warranty in the business but it's also very heavy compared to others. The JM reticle is simple for distance marks, work really slick. The illuminated dot is very daylight visible. I can pick it up as easy as an Aimpoint. Nothing is truly aimpoin bright as they have the extreme bright setting but this is close. Plus the glass is really really nice, sharp and clear. I also like that the vortex has a locking illumination dial so I don't worry about it getting bumped. Both have capped turrets.

That leave the bushnell. For 3 gun I really like this scope and reticle. Out of the three I would give it 3rd place overall for glass and in general. Its a very nice scope no doubt, but illumination is not daytime visible, that's its weakness. Also some cite the exit pupil to be narrow especially at higher magnification meaning eye placement is more critical and less forgiving. I've noticed this hit if you have a good cheek weld no issues.

My dream scope was a trijicon 1-6 accupoint with an acog reticle. I know there is the Vcog but I was really hoping for something in the accupoint line. Sometime soon I'll probably end up with a Vcog to play with, until then can't say.

I'd also like to check out the leupold, I've heard good things from the guys running them in 3 gun.

Look forward to sharing more ideas on the DMR project.

Dave