Obama's executive order

[Stylin750]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEGpgvE ... ata_player

Well there went any doctor patient confidentiality.
And all those firearm trusts that were made are all effectively burned. My god

[Stylin750]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ... d-make-our

[george]

Well , I wonder how that will affect forms that are already in by a trust

Edited for: looks like I'm covered for now effective in 180 days.

[jdege]

A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms regardless of the location in which firearm transactions are conducted. For example, a person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms even if the person only conducts firearm transactions at gun shows or through the Internet. Those engaged in the business of dealing in firearms who utilize the Internet or other technologies must obtain a license, just as a dealer whose business is run out of a traditional brick-and-mortar store.

Does that mean that BATF is going to abandon its storefront requirement, and will issue FFLs to individuals who do not have an address that is zoned to allow gun sales?

There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement. But it is important to note that even a few transactions, when combined with other evidence, can be sufficient to establish that a person is “engaged in the business.” For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors also were present.

In otherwords, BATF has retained its ability to prosecute anyone it damned well pleases.

[Bearcatrp]

Reminds me of the LLC for businesses when it came out. Looked good for awhile for protection until the laws changed. Think we are in for a rough ride and a crap load of court battles.

[Scratch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEGpgvEdBv4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Well there went any doctor patient confidentiality.
And all those firearm trusts that were made are all effectively burned. My god

I read most of the EO, I understand the trust stuff, but what is she talking about at about 11:45 where she says a lot of us will lose our right to own a firearm?

[Randygmn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEGpgvEdBv4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Well there went any doctor patient confidentiality.
And all those firearm trusts that were made are all effectively burned. My god

I read most of the EO, I understand the trust stuff, but what is she talking about at about 11:45 where she says a lot of us will lose our right to own a firearm?

There's a few things covered in these new actions. First and foremost, if a doctor thinks you're unstable, he can report that to NICS. Second, if you have someone handling your financial affairs, you can be declared incompetent and be barred from ownership. This was attempted a few months ago against a veteran and it was dropped. But here it is again.

[greenfarmer]

This is exactly why voting for Obama is just plain asinine!

Where the real problem lies is in mental health. Obama and his cronies are going after our guns, and their feeling is, even though this won't stop the problem, it will make the general public feel good because we "tried" and we put our stamp on this country.

Mental health is where they need to concentrate their time, efforts, and money into. Mental hospitals are closing up all over. Federal funding is disappearing for mental health hospitals all over. Why? for various reasons. Some aren't in compliance, some have problems that need to be corrected, some are understaffed. Sometimes insurance won't even cover patients who need the help, but can't get it because medica won't cover it. (thanks obamacare)

http://www.startribune.com/state-psychi ... 364192201/

Heres another good read..

http://www.startribune.com/minn-mental- ... 250719041/

There's an example of one in Anoka. Understaffed, people working 70 hours a week, inmates running the facility, anger issues amongst some of the people. Now, you tell me, when we have a place like this, which is on the verge of losing federal funding, where will these people go? Back out on the streets. They won't be thrown in jail. They won't be put in a hospital. They will be back out on the streets. And still have the ability to purchase a gun. So one of them is upset, goes out and buys a gun, and causes collateral damage. Now, us, as the general public, the ones who are law abiding, and able to purchase a gun, whether it's for hunting, protection, or sport, are the ones who have to deal with Obama adding gun control measures. Because they fail to address the real problem. Look at how many of these mass shootings that have happened over the past 8-10 years. How many of these shooters, have, did have, or do have a mental illness? How many claim it? How many didn't get the help they needed?

Sit down, take a look, and start thinking about all of the murders that have been committed over the years with guns, without guns, with bombs, knives, you name it. What it all boils down to, is someone has mental issues. Someone was sick in their mind, and didn't get the help they needed. Why didn't they? Well, partially to blame is we haven't put enough money into healthcare, into mental illness hospitals and facilities.

We all can sit here and reflect for a moment. The majority of us have carry permits. And i'm willing to bet that 100% of us, never want to have to use the power it has gave us to protect ourselves. None of us want to have to pull that weapon out and use it. Not a single one of us want to have to take another person's life. There is no want, or rush, or whatever in having to do that. Nobody wants to be faced with having to make that decision or move. Would we do it if we absolutely had to? If we were forced to make that decision between someone killing us, or a family member, or one of us having to protect our family, or ourselves? Yes, we would. But would we do it for fun? For sport? for pure enjoyment? ABSOLUTELY NOT! That is why Obama's gun control garbage is garbage! The sane, normal, people with a sound mind, aren't the problem! The angry, ones who have issues upstairs, belong in one of these mental hospitals to get the help they need, are the ones that shouldn't be allowed to have any sort of weapon. The suicidal ones, the ones that are wanting to commit suicide are the same ones who don't care how they do it, and are willing to harm others in the process. But yet they can't afford to staff them, they can't afford to keep them going because feds take money away for violations. Violations that are directly caused because they have no funding to run them properly. So the millions of dollars that Obama just threw away, and is using to try to curtail gun sales, is millions of dollars he could have put in the proper place, and used it for funding mental health. This is exactly where OBAMACARE has failed this country! And Obama himself failed us.

Ok, my political/gun control/obamacare rant is hopefully over. I just get so fed up with the garbage these political leaders keep trying to shove down our throats when they can't see where the real problem is. Maybe they can, but don't care because they want to further their own agenda, I don't know what it is. But people can't keep electing these idiots. Our country deserves better!

[Bessy]

So I'm not a lawyer, but here is my take away on the trust thing.

1. It doesn't appear to be retroactive, meaning you aren't going to have to get rid of what you have.

2. As much as this sucks, it also removes the requirement to be certified by your cleo. You know only need to send a copy to him. I think the real reason most folks pursued the trust route was to avoid sign-off from a local cleo which was often times been with-held for political reasons.This is now essentially void. While many cleo's would refuse to sign. I'd wager unless they can cite some offense which prohibits firearm ownership, they are going to be hard pressed to do anything. Basically turns NFA ownership from may issue to shall issue.

3. It sucks because now I need to worry about my beneficiaries having to navigate the legal nightmare of NFA transfers.

[Squib Joe]

Sit down, take a look, and start thinking about all of the murders that have been committed over the years with guns, without guns, with bombs, knives, you name it. What it all boils down to, is someone has mental issues. Someone was sick in their mind, and didn't get the help they needed. Why didn't they? Well, partially to blame is we haven't put enough money into healthcare, into mental illness hospitals and facilities.

Don't fall into their trap. I think that a very, very small fraction of gun-related violent crime is committed because of mental health issues. Murders are committed over money and drugs, for the most part, followed a close second by relationship problems. Enforce the laws on the book and strengthen those that are easy on criminals. Zero tolerance and enhanced, mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes. Personally, when they shake down a kid on the street and find a gun he shouldn't have, I'd like to see him put away for at least a few years.

[goett047]

Sit down, take a look, and start thinking about all of the murders that have been committed over the years with guns, without guns, with bombs, knives, you name it. What it all boils down to, is someone has mental issues. Someone was sick in their mind, and didn't get the help they needed. Why didn't they? Well, partially to blame is we haven't put enough money into healthcare, into mental illness hospitals and facilities.

Don't fall into their trap. I think that a very, very small fraction of gun-related violent crime is committed because of mental health issues. Murders are committed over money and drugs, for the most part, followed a close second by relationship problems. Enforce the laws on the book and strengthen those that are easy on criminals. Zero tolerance and enhanced, mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes. Personally, when they shake down a kid on the street and find a gun he shouldn't have, I'd like to see him put away for at least a few years.

This. All too often gun charges are pled down and no time is served. The solution is not to chip away at legal gun owners its to use the laws that already exist and actually prosecuting people for breaking them.

[Citiot]

There is a BIG difference between mentally ill and mentally deranged. This part of the EO is very concerning.

If you are on any sort of govt subsidy or SS, etc, visiting your doctor for a case of the "winter blues" could wind you up on the no gun list.

What will happen is that gun owners who have a minor mental health issue WILL NOT visit their doctor for fear of gun confiscation. The illness will get worse and worse without treatment.

--citiot (former Democrat)

[Bearcatrp]

But people can't keep electing these idiots. Our country deserves better!

As long as the democrats keep cutting the checks for these lowlifes, they don't want there meal ticket gone so they keep electing there food stamp president!

[Bessy]

Sit down, take a look, and start thinking about all of the murders that have been committed over the years with guns, without guns, with bombs, knives, you name it. What it all boils down to, is someone has mental issues. Someone was sick in their mind, and didn't get the help they needed. Why didn't they? Well, partially to blame is we haven't put enough money into healthcare, into mental illness hospitals and facilities.

Don't fall into their trap. I think that a very, very small fraction of gun-related violent crime is committed because of mental health issues. Murders are committed over money and drugs, for the most part, followed a close second by relationship problems. Enforce the laws on the book and strengthen those that are easy on criminals. Zero tolerance and enhanced, mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes. Personally, when they shake down a kid on the street and find a gun he shouldn't have, I'd like to see him put away for at least a few years.

This. All too often gun charges are pled down and no time is served. The solution is not to chip away at legal gun owners its to use the laws that already exist and actually prosecuting people for breaking them.

I can't stress this enough. Let's look at a common mental health issue like depression. Many people believe that someone who suffers from depression and is being treated for it should not have access to firearms.

If you look at the statistics, being depressed increases your risk to of harm to self as others, but no nearly as much as being a male from the ages of 18-24.

I'd be very careful about throwing people with mental illness under the bus. Removing their rights with only the flimsiest of pretenses and without due process is going to prevent those who need help from seeking it.

[Ghost]

Sit down, take a look, and start thinking about all of the murders that have been committed over the years with guns, without guns, with bombs, knives, you name it. What it all boils down to, is someone has mental issues. Someone was sick in their mind, and didn't get the help they needed. Why didn't they? Well, partially to blame is we haven't put enough money into healthcare, into mental illness hospitals and facilities.

Don't fall into their trap. I think that a very, very small fraction of gun-related violent crime is committed because of mental health issues. Murders are committed over money and drugs, for the most part, followed a close second by relationship problems. Enforce the laws on the book and strengthen those that are easy on criminals. Zero tolerance and enhanced, mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes. Personally, when they shake down a kid on the street and find a gun he shouldn't have, I'd like to see him put away for at least a few years.

So you're saying crimes are more bad when using a gun



How about punishment based on the crime and not the tool used?