May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

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May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby Seismic Sam on Tue May 24, 2016 2:05 pm

5/24/16 update: Third headstamp found on 9mm cases with about 9% LESS volume for the powder in the case, which will significantly raise the pressure!! FM 9mm brass!!!

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6/3/14 UPDATE: Just scrounged a bunch more brass over at OGC, and found EVEN MORE Ammoload and IMT brass than before!! That means that it is likely that a few or A BUNCH of you will be getting stuck with this stuff Sort 9mm carefully from now on, people, because it's your continued good health that will be on the line.....

Just ran across about 10 more of these little pressure cookers at OGC, so I thought I shorten up and repeat my warning from last year.

UPDATE!! Just found a 2nd headstamp with the same reduced internal space: IMT

Was sorting my 9mm range brass I had scrounged, and came across some very weird stuff:

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There are also 45ACP Ammoload cases, and it has the same weird ledge inside the case in the lower half of it. As with 9mm, if you do reload this stuff, you're going to have to develop a whole new recipe for this reduced powder volume case. If you don't find 200 0r 300 all lying there in a pile, then you better make sure this doesn't get in with your other brass!!

These cases have a ledge and thus a substantially thicker base to them, which will make them VERY different from any other 9mm brass, and if you mix this stuff in with your other 9mm, you are asking for trouble. I went to the trouble of weighing the cases, and on average, they are 8.8% heavier than the average of 6 other popular brands, which is what you would expect with that extra brass in there. I then did a volume determination with water, and found out these cases had 4.4% LESS volume that standard 9mm cases. That's misleading, however, as the front half of the case is taken up by the bullet, so as far as the space for the powder is concerned, Ammoload cases have about 9% LESS internal volume than other cases. That's significant, and if you're loading full power loads with a quick burning powder like 231, something could go KABOOM on you. As such, if you run into this stuff, segregate it and make sure it isn't loaded with anything ELSE!!
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May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby Ron Burgundy on Tue May 24, 2016 2:09 pm

IMT is everywhere. I have a ton of it in my scrap bucket. I think Freedom Munitions uses it so you'll find a lot on the ground after a pistol match.
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May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby gun_fan111v2 on Tue May 24, 2016 3:12 pm

Good reminder, thanks.
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Re: May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby andrewP on Sat May 28, 2016 10:19 pm

Ron Burgundy wrote:IMT is everywhere. I think Freedom Munitions uses it.


Yeah, I pick up a lot of 9mm after tearing down stages at OGC's USPSA matches, and I do my best to look at the headstamps when picking them up. I tend to fling FM, IMT, and AMMOLOAD, which IIRC are ALL Freedom Munitions brass as far from myself as I can in order to avoid picking up the same one I don't want twice. Any headstamps I don't recognize get a quick look inside the case in order to verify the presence or lack of a ledge and dealt with accordingly.

With 9mm brass being effectively free (it only costs a few minutes of my time to go home with double or more as many cases as I shot in the match), there's just no reason to mess around with using that ledge stuff. If I was going to bother with it, I'd definitely do like Sam said and save up a large quantity of it (probably several thousand) and then develop a load just for that type of brass.
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Re: May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby Seismic Sam on Mon May 30, 2016 6:41 am

Better yet, fling that shyte up towards the backstop so other brass pickers don't run across it!! (Cough, cough...) And considering the fact that these headstamps of brass could be like this because they are so SHI**Y that they need the ledge to keep the bullet from dropping down in the case, I would NEVER develop a load for this junk!!
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Re: May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby andrewP on Mon May 30, 2016 6:20 pm

Seismic Sam wrote:Better yet, fling that shyte up towards the backstop so other brass pickers don't run across it!!


That is in fact the direction in which I typically fling it. :)
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Re: May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby Seismic Sam on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:21 am

andrewP wrote:
Ron Burgundy wrote:IMT is everywhere. I think Freedom Munitions uses it.


Yeah, I pick up a lot of 9mm after tearing down stages at OGC's USPSA matches, and I do my best to look at the headstamps when picking them up. I tend to fling FM, IMT, and AMMOLOAD, which IIRC are ALL Freedom Munitions brass as far from myself as I can in order to avoid picking up the same one I don't want twice. Any headstamps I don't recognize get a quick look inside the case in order to verify the presence or lack of a ledge and dealt with accordingly.

With 9mm brass being effectively free (it only costs a few minutes of my time to go home with double or more as many cases as I shot in the match), there's just no reason to mess around with using that ledge stuff. If I was going to bother with it, I'd definitely do like Sam said and save up a large quantity of it (probably several thousand) and then develop a load just for that type of brass.


After Googling around a bit, I am not sure that the FM on the case means Freedom Munitions. Freedom Munitions is a bulk reloader that seems to be a pretty shoddy company from some of the comments, and while they do wind up with some FM headstamps in their mix of cases, I doubt they make this weird brass to begin with. Ammoload is the name of a company that makes bulk reloading machines, and again they don't seem to have anything to do with actually making brass cases. I suspect the actual cases are coming from some weird overseas location, and if you smell one of the cases the odor seems to be a mixture of garlic and camel poop. Perhaps I should send a case to Rodentman, whose ratty nose is much better with funky smells like that.
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Re: May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby OldmanFCSA on Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:03 am

FM Établissements Industriels de Défense, Damascus, Syria 1
FM Fábrica Militar de Cartuchos de San Lorenzo, San Lorenzo, Argentina 3
FM Fábrica Nacional de Municiones, Santa Fe, México (near Mexico City) 2

http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/head ... ampcodes#F
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Re: May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby Seismic Sam on Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:28 am

HAH!!! I was right with #1!! Definitely garlic and camel poop from one of the biggest shyteholes in the world...

I wonder if this inner shelf is due to cheap brass that isn't as strong, or perhaps they can't draw brass very well to make cases...
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Re: May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby Ghost on Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:50 am

Ron Burgundy wrote:IMT is everywhere. I have a ton of it in my scrap bucket. I think Freedom Munitions uses it so you'll find a lot on the ground after a pistol match.

Freedom munitions made my no buy list after I started finding this stuff.
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Re: May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby fine ape on Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:00 pm

Seismic Sam wrote:HAH!!! I was right with #1!! Definitely garlic and camel poop from one of the biggest shyteholes in the world...

I wonder if this inner shelf is due to cheap brass that isn't as strong, or perhaps they can't draw brass very well to make cases...



It could be a simple (cheep) way to control the seating depth/ OAL. Ya know can't push a .355 dia bullet too far into a .320 dia hole.
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Re: May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby photogpat on Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:52 pm

Mix and match case, powder, bullet and primer is Freedom's modus operandi - no thanks.
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Re: May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby Dakotared on Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:43 pm

There is a guy who uses Freedom munitions in our Wednesday night league and every one of his cases has the damn shoulder in it. I keep it for scrap but will not use it for loading.
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Re: May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby andrewP on Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:50 pm

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Re: May 2016 Update on REDUCED VOLUME 9mm brass!!!

Postby Seismic Sam on Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:30 pm



OMG!!! In addition to the ridiculously thick walls, I can't really get a good red on how thick the BASE of the case is. That primer hole looks pretty damn deep.

As far as WHY someone would do this, let's start looking where the FM trail ends, and as I said in a previous post, I smelled camel poop and garlic!!! Yup the FM cases come from one of the most violent shyteholes in the world, Syria. Given that assumption, why would somebody do this???

1a. Maybe the powder supply has been so "Hillaried" that they have to do this to save powder??

1b. Maybe the powder supply is just plain non-existent, so it's hideously expensive??

2. Maybe all of the higher tech loading systems have been bombed out of existence, and they have to have cases like this to reliably seat the bullets??

Ladies and Gentlemen, please close your tray tables and bring your seat back forward in preparation for a crash landing...... :bolt:

As you may know, brass drawing is a very highly developed art, and you can't make cases with anything like a Lee Whack-a-Mole kit, or even the most expensive Dillon system there is.

3. Could these POSSIBLY be CAST cartridge cases??? There are 1,000's of spent artillery shell cases all over Syria, so brass is dirt cheap and readily available.

I can't believe this could honestly be the case, but I got this funny feeling these cases came from some set of appalling circumstances...
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