Holland&Holland wrote:If you are shooting a deer at 500 yards with a 12 inch 6.5 Grendel you are not a hunter.
More like a predator
Holland&Holland wrote:If you are shooting a deer at 500 yards with a 12 inch 6.5 Grendel you are not a hunter.
Holland&Holland wrote:More like an unethical person
Ghost wrote:Holland&Holland wrote:More like an unethical person
So that's why you like 6.8 more, it limits you to ethical hunting ranges. Got it.
Holland&Holland wrote:Ghost wrote:Holland&Holland wrote:More like an unethical person
So that's why you like 6.8 more, it limits you to ethical hunting ranges. Got it.
The 6.8 comment was tongue in cheek. Both are adequate for deer at reasonable ranges and honestly are a horse a piece.
What I take issue with is when someone tries to portray a low power round like the grendal as a long range hunting option.
I thought that was clear.
Ghost wrote:I'm not advocating that people shoot beyond their skill level.
Many whitetails have been taken in the 300-500 yard range. Elk 400+.
Longest kill I know of was 752 yards that DRT'd an antelope with a high shoulder spine shot and complete pass through.
Hog hunters have been lining them up and getting two for ones at triple digit ranges.
The 6.5 bullets are extremely efficient and highly effective they don't need high speed.
Holland&Holland wrote:Ghost wrote:I'm not advocating that people shoot beyond their skill level.
Many whitetails have been taken in the 300-500 yard range. Elk 400+.
Longest kill I know of was 752 yards that DRT'd an antelope with a high shoulder spine shot and complete pass through.
Hog hunters have been lining them up and getting two for ones at triple digit ranges.
The 6.5 bullets are extremely efficient and highly effective they don't need high speed.
With a grendal? I have no issue with someone shooting at their skill level, however please use the correct tool to do it.
Ghost wrote:Holland&Holland wrote:Ghost wrote:I'm not advocating that people shoot beyond their skill level.
Many whitetails have been taken in the 300-500 yard range. Elk 400+.
Longest kill I know of was 752 yards that DRT'd an antelope with a high shoulder spine shot and complete pass through.
Hog hunters have been lining them up and getting two for ones at triple digit ranges.
The 6.5 bullets are extremely efficient and highly effective they don't need high speed.
With a grendal? I have no issue with someone shooting at their skill level, however please use the correct tool to do it.
Yes, with a Grendel
Holland&Holland wrote:Ghost wrote:Holland&Holland wrote:
With a grendal? I have no issue with someone shooting at their skill level, however please use the correct tool to do it.
Yes, with a Grendel
Ok, you win, the Grendel is the worlds most perfect cartridge, it has more power than navel artillery and can drop an elephant at 2 miles. Nothing else on the planet can top it.
hard h2o wrote:It seems to me that a lot of these new AR rounds are an attempt to fit a round into the magazine/boltface envelope of the AR. As such they are a compromise. You will have the case capacity of a .223 or similar that you are using to push whatever caliber bullet you are using. Case diameter might vary but case length will generally stay constant. Bullet seating might change to increase capacity.
One reason (other than budget) that I do not have an AR yet is they seem to be more of a toy than anything else. If I want a tool to shoot long range then I will choose some sort of bolt action rifle that does not limit me to a certain case to function. It will be easier to get to shoot accurately. Bullet seating depth can be adjusted more readily to attempt to get better accuracy. I am not concerned with semi-auto operation so case resizing is not necessarily full length.
I was in the military and shot on a pistol team and took part in numerous training exercises related to that. Part of that was training to be able to train others in marksmanship. I was able to shoot on 1000 meter ranges with an iron sighted M16A1. I know the AR platform can be very accurate on the range, however shooting at paper you are not as concerned with power at a given range as you are with making small groups.
Why use a compromise cartridge for hunting (especially long range)? Just to say you can do it with an AR? I would rather take a full length cartridge with more power shooting out of a hopefully more accurate bolt action. I would rather not artificially hobble myself with an under-powered chambering.
hard h2o wrote:It seems to me that a lot of these new AR rounds are an attempt to fit a round into the magazine/boltface envelope of the AR. As such they are a compromise. You will have the case capacity of a .223 or similar that you are using to push whatever caliber bullet you are using. Case diameter might vary but case length will generally stay constant. Bullet seating might change to increase capacity.
One reason (other than budget) that I do not have an AR yet is they seem to be more of a toy than anything else. If I want a tool to shoot long range then I will choose some sort of bolt action rifle that does not limit me to a certain case to function. It will be easier to get to shoot accurately. Bullet seating depth can be adjusted more readily to attempt to get better accuracy. I am not concerned with semi-auto operation so case resizing is not necessarily full length.
I was in the military and shot on a pistol team and took part in numerous training exercises related to that. Part of that was training to be able to train others in marksmanship. I was able to shoot on 1000 meter ranges with an iron sighted M16A1. I know the AR platform can be very accurate on the range, however shooting at paper you are not as concerned with power at a given range as you are with making small groups.
Why use a compromise cartridge for hunting (especially long range)? Just to say you can do it with an AR? I would rather take a full length cartridge with more power shooting out of a hopefully more accurate bolt action. I would rather not artificially hobble myself with an under-powered chambering.
Holland&Holland wrote:Yes there are some capable AR cartridges and there have been tremendous improvements in bullet construction, that said the responsibility of the ethical hunter has not changed. To shoot at elk sized game at 400 yards with a Grendel is not ethical. Those that think it is please post the statistics of how many shot at, at those ranges were wounded and never recovered. Don't get me wrong, at reasonable ranges AR chamberings can be very effective, but this is pushing the limits of the cartridge and their are much better tools in the tool box to make an ethical kill.
Just because you can do something does not mean you should. 6.5mm bullets very well may be amazing, but they are not magical. The 6.5 Grendel is NOT a 400 yard Elk cartridge, it just isn't even if you wish it so.
Erud wrote:Holland&Holland wrote:Yes there are some capable AR cartridges and there have been tremendous improvements in bullet construction, that said the responsibility of the ethical hunter has not changed. To shoot at elk sized game at 400 yards with a Grendel is not ethical. Those that think it is please post the statistics of how many shot at, at those ranges were wounded and never recovered. Don't get me wrong, at reasonable ranges AR chamberings can be very effective, but this is pushing the limits of the cartridge and their are much better tools in the tool box to make an ethical kill.
Just because you can do something does not mean you should. 6.5mm bullets very well may be amazing, but they are not magical. The 6.5 Grendel is NOT a 400 yard Elk cartridge, it just isn't even if you wish it so.
Are you arguing with me, or someone else? Can you give a breakdown of minimum ethical cartridges for various animals at various distances? I am not a hunter, so something like that would be useful if I ever decided to start.
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