ATF agents investigating a straw purchase?

[yukonjasper]

https://youtu.be/OFE9Yl2X57A


The guy in the video does a good job of picking this apart and pointing out that there is definitely a gun registery, this video proves it.

Would be interesting how this would have worked out if the resident dug in on his rights and did not cooperate.

I may only buy from individuals from here on out. Makes me think which guns I bought through stores or FFL , which are on my registery......

[LarryFlew]

WOW

Appears like all guns purchased through FFL actually are registered when gov says we don't have gun registration.

[Holland&Holland]

WOW

Appears like all guns purchased through FFL actually are registered when gov says we don't have gun registration.

Trust us, we are from the government and are here to help.

[Scratch]

WOW

Appears like all guns purchased through FFL actually are registered when gov says we don't have gun registration.

In this case, the customer bought multiple handguns within a 5 day period and the dealer has to fill out a separate form (multiple handgun transfer form) and send it to local LE and the ATF. that’s why they had a record of it. This only applies to handguns, not receivers or long guns.

If you live in a border state like Texas or California, they also have to do it on long guns I believe.

Once we get your 4473, for handgun, long gun, or receiver, we don’t send it in to anyone. We file it in a file cabinet, cardboard box, etc… and the only time it’ll sever see the light of day again is:
1.If/when we get audited, (but they only check for paperwork errors)
2.If the gun shows up at a crime and they run a trace on it.
3.If the dealer gives up their license (all paperwork has to get sent in then)

Number 3 is the most worrisome option. Most people don’t keep their job forever and eventually, they’ll give up their FFL and have to send in every record they have.

Boom, registration.

[LarryFlew]

2.If the gun shows up at a crime and they run a trace on it.

How do they even know if they are not keeping information?

[Holland&Holland]

Wait, the ATF lies and breaks the law?

[Scratch]

2.If the gun shows up at a crime and they run a trace on it.

How do they even know if they are not keeping information?

A trace works like this:

Let’s say a Smith and Wesson M&P shows up at a crime scene, the ATF will call Smith and Wesson and say “We found this pistol with this serial number, where did it go?”

S&W says “Cabelas in Woodbury.”

Then they call Cabelas and say “Where did it go?”
They look in their records, find the 4473 and say “John Smith”.
They ask for all the contact information from the 4473. They sometimes ask for other stuff like “Has this person got guns from you before?”

They’ve never asked me to send in, or scan the form at that point, but they do ask for all the customer info from the form so they have it all anyways at that point.

This is why we have to keep our records for 20 years. I think they have, or are changing that time to longer now though…

[daleamn]

Thanks for a clear, readable, understandable explanation.

Our main stream media is really starting to lose the ability to write in common, everyday, grammatically correct English. I regularly view MSN.COM for headlines and stories and the lack of proof readers and fact checkers is becoming more and more apparent. Just the other day there was a story about the WWII battle off Savo Island and I actually wonder if the story wasn't originally written in a foreign language and then translated into English by some low-cost app.

If you want to see it, that story is here:
https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-h ... al-defeat/

Thanks again for the explanation of how the trace process works.

[westhope]

Most larger dealers today use a computerized 4473. How and where are those records kept?

[Jackpine Savage]

Most larger dealers today use a computerized 4473. How and where are those records kept?

I'm sure the NSA has a copy.

[westhope]

The "NSA" has a copy of us discussing this.

[Scratch]

Most larger dealers today use a computerized 4473. How and where are those records kept?

There are software packages like “Gunstore Master” and a bunch of others but they should be controlled and stored in house and “shouldn’t” be accessible by “the man”.

…shouldn’t be…

[daleamn]

As I understand it the ATF is currently restricted from digitizing records BUT with the newly sworn in permanent director of the ATF, Steve M. Dettelbach, the agency's first permanent head in seven years (I guess all the others were 'temp help'...) the Giffords Law Center is urging Congress and the Department of Justice to:

"repeal many restrictions designed to make the agency less effective, including a rule barring it from digitizing records and one blocking it from inspecting the same dealer more than once in a year, and it says the Justice Department should do more to protect ATF from gun industry attacks."

Digitizing records, IMO, is a BIG step toward the gun registration the gun grabbers have been pushing for over the years.

P.S. I have to agree with the Giffords though about protecting the ATF against those gun industry attacks. Who knew we were doing that? (I am being very sarcastic here.)

The article I'm referencing about lifting the restrictions on the ATF is here:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... 2f2c71f8b6

[jdege]

IMO, BATF store be shower to digitize any records it likes, so long as it doesn't include guns or gun owners.

[jdege]

IMO, BATF store be allowed to digitize any records it likes, so long as it doesn't include guns or gun owners.