Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby Belgiboy on Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:53 pm

VikesFan1 wrote:Belgiboy, the mag it came with says, "KRD" and holds 17 rounds. I just found another one for $29.99, shipping included. Is that a good deal? It's a Browning pre-'94/pre-ban 13 round factory mag in excellent condition with no damage or modifications.

I'll be honest that I don't know KRD magazines but $29.99 shipped is a good price and I wouldn't pass up on that. Then I would disassemble all the magazines and deep clean them and treat them with Kroil. I also would look into a new recoil spring, just to have around, it is not a new gun after all and springs do deteriorate.
Accurising is something I would be hesitant to do, if you have an all stock, original Belgian gun. They are getting harder to find, and it doesn't make sense from a investment point of view. Keep it stock, they are plenty accurate, but if you decide to do modifications make sure that you can return them to their original state.
I just put hogue grips on mine, so the original wood grips wouldn't get marred.
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby VikesFan1 on Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:32 pm

Belgiboy wrote:but if you decide to do modifications make sure that you can return them to their original state.

Definitely.

Here's some info I found while researching if you're interested. The top barrel has a humped feed ramp, like mine...


9mm Hi Power Reliability

This is a question that pops up on the gun forums regularly and one that I have been asked on many occasions. It may be phrased in different ways such as, "Is the Hi Power reliable with hollow points? I've heard that they only feed ball reliably," or "Is the Hi Power as reliable as a Glock?" Some ask if it is reliable enough for self-protection. Others ask how it rates next to the old 1911.

Let's take a look at this issue as much without bias as possible and based on first-hand observations.

The question concerning "only ball ammo being reliable" in the Hi Power stems from the older Hi Powers, which have the old humped feed ramp. These definitely could have "indigestion" with other than FMJ round nose ammunition, not all but some. With the advent of the Mk II Hi Power in the 1980's, FN changed the feed ramp to a "straight" design and since that time, Hi Powers are reliable with about any JHP I've tried. All of the Mk III pistols I've tried have also been reliable with high-performance ammunition.

Image

Shown are two 9mm Hi Power barrels from BarSto. The top has the humped barrel and closely resembles the FN factory bbl of humped design that was common in Hi Powers preceding the Mk II. The bottom barrel has had the hump removed and appears the same as the current straight ramp factory Hi Power barrels. If one is going to have a humped bbl's feed ramp made into a straight one, care must be taken to insure that most of the work is done at and below the hump. We do not want to remove any more steel than is necessary at the rear of the chamber. Improperly done, this can lead to insufficient case support, never a good thing. (The bottom bbl is an early BarSto of one-piece construction. The top bbl was made later and is of the usual two-piece design as can be seen by the small line where the two parts are joined. Factory Hi Power barrels are of the two-piece design. I have never had a problem with either after tens of thousands of rounds. Neither can I see any difference in accuracy. For more on two-piece barrels, click on the link:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/TwoPieceBarrels.htm

In the earlier 9mm Hi Powers, Mec-Gar was not the OEM magazine manufacturer. Factory magazines often did not hold the cartridge at much of an upward angle. This didn't really matter with FMJ round nose military type ammo, but it did not help those of us trying to shoot blunt JHP's. I have seen the simple substitution of a current Mec-Gar magazine turn a stuttering classic Hi Power with the humped ramp into a most reliable Hi Power using JHP's. This does not always work, but frequently it solves the problem.

Image

The suggestion that the 9mm Hi Power is only reliable with FMJ ammo is not necessarily true. The Hi Power in this picture is of the current Mk III design. Nothing has been done to enhance reliability because nothing at all has been necessary. This one, as well as several others, has proven to be utterly dependable with every JHP I've tried weighing at least 100 grains. I have found no factory JHP in either standard or +P weighing 115-gr. or over that the Mk II or Mk III will not feed. I suppose that there could be individual examples of the gun that don't, but on the whole I believe that Hi Powers having the current straight feed ramp are not particular.

Image

Every Mk II and Mk III pistol I've tried has feed expanding ammunition of varying LOA and bullet shape extremely well.

It is also frequently parroted that the 9mm Hi Power will not work reliably with the "heavy-weight" 147-gr. JHP's favored by some. I have not found this to be true. Though the only hollow points I've tried in this weight range have been from Remington, Speer, and Winchester, there have been exactly zero problems. Such has held true whether I was using a factory standard 17-lb recoil spring or slightly stronger 18.5-lb spring from Wolff.

The main culprit I've seen in current Hi Powers being less than reliable with any type of ammunition has been weak extractor springs. It has been my experience that the Hi Power requires stout ones. If you have a Hi Power that is failing to extract and eject fired cases, this may very well be the problem and is where I would begin looking. Press the rear of the external pivoting extractor inward toward the slide with your thumbnail. If it moves easily, the extractor spring is too weak. When I've experienced such problems (rare indeed), I've replaced this spring with an extra power one from Wolff and the problem disappears. Sometimes the front "pad" on the backside of the extract needs to be filed down a very few thousandths to solve the problem, but almost always simply replacing the spring does the trick. Before replacing either the spring or working on the extractor, check and make sure that the extractor claw is not chipped or broken. If such is the case, simply order a new one.

I have also been asked if the buffers I use (Buffer Technology's products) decrease reliability. I have not noticed any decrease in reliability.

For those interested in the Buffer Technology shock buff, go here:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Buffer.htm

In over 3 decades of shooting Hi Powers regularly, I have seen but two that had broken ejectors. If you are suffering ejection problems and the extractor and spring are not suspect, you might inspect the ejector to see if the tip is broken. If it is, replace it but I personally believe that this is very rare.

Sadly, what is unfortunately not rare seems to be a lack of maintenance by either the uneducated or the lazy. Let me explain. For over a decade I've been an instructor for my state's concealed carry program. Firearm qualifications are part of the process. On a fairly regular basis, we see both 9mm and 40-caliber Hi Powers on the firing line. The vast majority of the time, they function flawlessly but on three occasions, Hi Power shooters had reliability problems and on three occasions, their Hi Powers had not been cleaned or lubed in years; they were dry as the proverbial bone! On these same three occasions, a drop of oil on each barrel lug and a drop in the slide rails solved the problem. The Hi Power is definitely a time and battlefield-proven sidearm, but even normally dependable firearms need at least a minimum of maintenance. FWIW, in the three cases of neglect just mentioned, the firearm did not malfunction (usually failure to eject) every single shot. It would normally fire three or more cartridges between malfunctions. Don't let this happen to you; maintain your firearms be they Hi Powers or something else. (One of the badly neglected Hi Powers was a barely shot, never cleaned "T-series." I believe that is probably more than neglect and simply has to be some sort of a sin!)

Now and then, I get emails concerning how a fellow's Hi Power simply is not working with handloaded ammunition. Once again, failing to extract and eject is the usual problem. In each instance, the load was simply too light. The Hi Power's mainspring is rated at 32-lbs, heavier than on most 9mm (or .40) pistols. This is to both insure super-reliable primer ignition and slow rearward slide velocity. Add to that the normal 17-lb recoil spring (for 9mm; 20-lb for the forty) and it becomes clear that the Hi Power is not set up from the factory for light loads. They just don't have the "hootus" to move the slide rearward enough to cock the hammer, eject the fired case, and then strip another cartridge from the magazine and chamber. A general rule of thumb I've found to be true with the 9mm Hi Power is for handloaded ammunition to have a muzzle velocity of at least 1020 to 1050 ft/sec with 115-gr. bullets. Some will operate fine at slightly lower velocities, but every single Hi Power I've shot will work fine with this as it comes from the factory. If a person is bound and determined to shoot really light handloads in their 9mm Hi Power, a reduced power recoil spring is probably the solution. I have not tried this because I simply don't shoot light 9mm loads so I cannot provide any first-hand observations here.

It is no secret that I use both the buffer and the Wolff conventional 18.5-lb recoil spring in my 9mm Hi Powers. My guns' mainsprings are the standard 32-lb from the factory. I've had no problems with standard pressure ammunition or +P with this arrangement, but have noted that some folks do. If the heavier recoil spring is not working for you, go with the factory standard. If you shoot standard pressure loads, the factory 17-lb spring will work fine. If you shoot a goodly number of +P loads, I'd go with the 18.5-lb recoil spring. Sometimes a gun that wasn't working with the 18.5-lb recoil spring when new will after a couple of thousand shots.

This covers the primary causes for stutters in what is usually a very dependable handgun.

For those who might be interested, the greatest number of shots I've fired between internal lubing and cleaning has been just over 700. The gun was running fine then, but I couldn't stand it any longer and gave it a good cleaning and lube job.

In my long-term observation, the Hi Power remains one of the most proven reliable automatic pistols on earth and if one is not, the solutions mentioned here should transform it into one. Most will be from the get-go.

Best.
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby jac714 on Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:06 pm

VikesFan1 wrote:Belgiboy, the mag it came with says, "KRD" and holds 17 rounds. I just found another one for $29.99, shipping included. Is that a good deal? It's a Browning pre-'94/pre-ban 13 round factory mag in excellent condition with no damage or modifications.


If your HP still has the magazine disconnect you want to try to find the mags made for the Practical version, they hae a small kicker spring to help eject the magazine a little more rapidly. I can show you what I am talking about on Wednesday.
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby selurcspi on Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:46 am

To help the trigger pull and remove some of the gritty feel in the take up swing. Replace your trigger with one from Cylinder and Slide that has no provision for the mag safety. If you simply remove the mag safety, it could be argued that you removed a safety feature, but if there is no place for the safety there will be less questions and of course the pin hole in the trigger looks ugly! :D :D :D
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby VikesFan1 on Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:41 am

jac714 wrote:If your HP still has the magazine disconnect you want to try to find the mags made for the Practical version, they hae a small kicker spring to help eject the magazine a little more rapidly. I can show you what I am talking about on Wednesday.

Please do!

selurcspi, appreciate the tip. I hope they have gold triggers. :lol:
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby VikesFan1 on Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:06 pm

3 more boxes of shells through today. 2 stove-pipes. Still shooting 2-3" left at 25'. The rear sight has two screws for adjustments. I messed with them a little but the element of human error is too high. What I really need is one of those pistol vices.

This will be my hunting sidearm. That's what this whole accuracy obsession is about.

Edit: I'm changing my tune a little regarding hammer bite. If your hands are overly fat and/or chunky I see how this is possible. This gun must like me though because it's only thirst is for targets.

Also, I take back everything I said about the BPR soda machine. It's only .65 cents.
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby hammAR on Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:55 pm

VikesFan1 wrote:Edit: I'm changing my tune a little regarding hammer bite. If your hands are overly fat and/or chunky I see how this is possible. This gun must like me though because it's only thirst is for targets.


..I keep telling you that it is not a bite, but a kiss, and they only do that when they really like you.......your time is coming and it will be love forevermore......... :lol:
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby selurcspi on Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:52 am

[quote="VikesFan1"]

Edit: I'm changing my tune a little regarding hammer bite. If your hands are overly fat and/or chunky I see how this is possible. This gun must like me though because it's only thirst is for targets.
[quote]

Back to Cylinder and Slide, for a small ringspur hammer :D :D

Yes they will have their parts Gold Plated if that is what you want, but expect to spend $$$
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby monschman on Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:09 pm

Is it obsessive that me a mere mortal could visually identify all the rounds shown in the above picture before i read the script. Anyway back on topic, Jesse, try checking with Novak, if bill laughridge (sorry if i murderd his name) is still there he can modify the hammer to not interact with the mag safety and also does a great job of bobbing the hammer without affecting the overall look too much. It can be spendy but if the trigger and hammer kisses are too much, it is a viable option without getting custom parts made for the gun. My other 02c would be to get a nice fiber sight on the front of that gun if it is going to primarily be a hunter, makes for nice quick sight acquisition.
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby VikesFan1 on Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:59 pm

hammAR wrote:
VikesFan1 wrote:Edit: I'm changing my tune a little regarding hammer bite. If your hands are overly fat and/or chunky I see how this is possible. This gun must like me though because it's only thirst is for targets.


..I keep telling you that it is not a bite, but a kiss, and they only do that when they really like you.......your time is coming and it will be love forevermore......... :lol:

I have a feeling it wouldn't be love... That seems like it would effin hurt!

selurcspi wrote:Back to Cylinder and Slide, for a small ringspur hammer :D :D

Yes they will have their parts Gold Plated if that is what you want, but expect to spend $$$

selurcspi, $$$ is right.. :shock: One of their "tune-up" packages is $750... That's more than I paid for the gun! :? The gold trigger is because the original is gold, but since I already swapped out the grips for something different looking, I guess it wouldn't matter if the trigger looked different... Thanks again.

monschman wrote:Is it obsessive that me a mere mortal could visually identify all the rounds shown in the above picture before i read the script.

Yes.................................But in a good way. :D Thanks the suggestions. Some of that work boarders on permanantly altering parts of this gun; something I have decided I'm not doing. I'll swap out anything necessary to preserve the old but that's where I'm drawing the line.


Today I added new Pachmayr grips with finger grooves and in doing so, it went from elegant looking gun, to insto mean-looking gun. I took off the original grips so as to preserve them. I think they're somewhat unique and I'd hate to see something happen. Now that they're off, I'm sure Murphy will step in and something will happen anyway. :o

I also decided to add a new match barrel with a slanted ramp when I have a chance. The original is in good shape and worth saving.
Last edited by VikesFan1 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby Belgiboy on Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:09 pm

Do not forget about the recoil spring. That may just take care of the stovepipes for days to come.
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby VikesFan1 on Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:19 pm

Belgiboy wrote:Do not forget about the recoil spring. That may just take care of the stovepipes for days to come.

Yep. I'm just not sure which direction to go with that yet... I'm open to suggestions but it's my understanding that with +p ammo and similar, I should go with a heavier spring to minimize slide wear & tear. I suppose first I need to figure out what I will primarily be using...

By the way, everything I say in this thread open to correction, constructive criticism, suggestions, ridicule and/or angry villagers-izing. :angryvillagers:

Thanks! :D
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby Holland&Holland on Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:23 pm

Congrats on the new aquisition VikesFan1. It looks like a sweet unit and at a great price!
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby VikesFan1 on Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:32 am

Holland&Holland wrote:Congrats on the new aquisition VikesFan1. It looks like a sweet unit and at a great price!


Thank you kindly, sir! I'm happy with it. :D
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Re: Browning Hi-Power 9mm Question..

Postby WWJD on Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:38 pm

http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-a ... -power.php

SAS switched to the Sig 226, then the Sig 228

http://www.whodareswins.com/weapons-sas ... power.html

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics ... g_Hi-Power

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