Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

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Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby Andrew Rothman on Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:34 pm

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=14319284

LAYTON -- The shoplifter smashed Gabriel Stewart up against a wall. It didn't take him long to realize that pressure against his lower back was from a loaded gun held by a desperate man who didn't want to go to jail.

The gunman had a firm grip on Stewart's shoulder, telling him and three of his Walmart co-workers, "Don't make me do this."

"Absolutely, time stopped," Stewart told KSL News. "I didn't know what to do."

Instantly, Shawn Ray and Justin Richins kicked into gear, spinning the gunman around. Lori Poulsen ripped the gun away and secured it. They all held onto the man until police arrived minutes later.

The four Layton Walmart employees felt it was mission accomplished. Police officers told them they had done everything right.

But a week later, all four were fired from their jobs. Walmart said their actions had violated company policy and put their fellow workers and shoppers at risk.


This is ridiculous. The policy forbids employees to endanger themselves to protect merchandise. In this case, however, they were clearly fighting for their lives.

Shut down their switchboard! Call the Layton, UT store at (801) 546-1992 and ask for a "manager on duty." Tell him or her why you think the firing is wrong -- they were protecting lives, not merchandise.

The MOD will tell you to call media relations at 800-331-0085. So do that (choose "customer"), too, and tell them the same thing.

Then post here when you've done it.

Don't let them get away with firing their employees for exercising their fundamental human right to self defense.
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby tacticalninja32 on Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:01 pm

Called them and the manager did refer the 1 800 number, called that, spoke to the girl there and she said she will add it to the rest of the callers and she said there is a high volume of calls generated for this case, she said they all can see that what the four associate did was not necessarily wrong however they did violate the policy and guidlines therfore they were terminated, I stated that no one in their is dumb enough to throw their lives in danger for a few hundred bucks of stolen goods and that they were fighting to stay alive from an aggrevated perp, I also said part of me was happy they no longer have to work for a ******* corporation but part of me also thinks this could be their main source of income and that it was not right for Walmart to terminate them the way they did
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby Holland&Holland on Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:03 pm

Maybe next time that whitebox is on sale don't buy it? Just a thought.
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby Andrew Rothman on Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:11 pm

MAke the manager hear you out before they foist you off on corporate. Keep the pressure on!
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby JeremiahMN on Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:38 pm

Had they made their move and the perp ended up shooting all of them, I think people would be thinking that they should have just done what the armed person asked them to do.

That being said, the bad guy went to jail, nobody got shot. If I was wal-mart I would have made a big to-do about how these employees are some heros and got some free media attention out of it. But certainly was very very wrong to fire them over it. Worse case scenario they should have been sat down and talked to about it if Wal-Mart felt that strongly about it.
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby mmcnx2 on Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:38 pm

While I'm glad the employees did what they did given they did not get hurt by the bad guy. However, Walmart really has no choice at this point. If they don't enforce their policy in this case they open themselves to not being able to enforce other policies in all future cases. Now they could change the policy and then retro active the action, but presidence is a tough issue in the corporate and legal word.
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby nyffman on Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:16 pm

mmcnx2 wrote:While I'm glad the employees did what they did given they did not get hurt by the bad guy. However, Walmart really has no choice at this point. If they don't enforce their policy in this case they open themselves to not being able to enforce other policies in all future cases. Now they could change the policy and then retro active the action, but presidence is a tough issue in the corporate and legal word.

Andrew Rothman wrote:
This is ridiculous. The policy forbids employees to endanger themselves to protect merchandise. In this case, however, they were clearly fighting for their lives.
our quarrel is not about the value of freedom per se, but stems from our opinion of our fellow men … a man’s admiration of absolute government is proportionate to the contempt he feels for those around him --Alexis de Tocqueville--
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby mmcnx2 on Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:30 pm

Well, Andrew is a pretty smart guy and maybe he has access to the actually policy, but if it says they must withdraw then that is the policy and dumb or unsafe as it might be it is still grounds for termination. Like I said, we should be pushing for them to change the policy first then make right by the employees. But if they just back down in this instance they will have more trouble than you could believe.
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby nyffman on Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:03 pm

Ok, but in addition to the above, there is this:
Workers still can't believe what happened the next week. "She said, 'You're fired,'" Richins recalled, of the person brought in to let him go. "You're being terminated for a violation of AP09." AP09 is Walmart's policy on dealing with shoplifters. A copy obtained by KSL shows employees are allowed to use "reasonable force" to limit movements of struggling suspects. If a weapon comes out, however, associates must "disengage" and "withdraw," the policy states. The workers say they don't know where they would have withdrawn to, with the door behind them closed in a small room and the man charging at them. They contend they had no other real option.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread661598/pg1

So, interpretation of the policy is the issue here. I think a reasonable person could interpret in favor of the employees. It would be a good move by Walmart to reconsider citing the inability of the employees to safely retreat in this case.
Last edited by nyffman on Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby tacticalninja32 on Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:11 pm

Andrew Rothman wrote:MAke the manager hear you out before they foist you off on corporate. Keep the pressure on!

Oh I did, surprisingly I was not even interrupted once but at the end the manager did say "again it is not my place nor do I have any privilidge to comment about the situation"
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby 12smile on Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:42 am

Tell them you're Sam Walton and you're calling from the grave.
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby Andrew Rothman on Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:39 am

The policy is available as a link from the news story. In part, it reads, REPEATEDLY:

PUT PEOPLE FIRST. Protecting the physical well-being of suspects, customers, and Walmart associates is your first priority.
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby RobD on Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:13 pm

Andrew Rothman wrote:The policy is available as a link from the news story. In part, it reads, REPEATEDLY:

PUT PEOPLE FIRST. Protecting the physical well-being of suspects, customers, and Walmart associates is your first priority.


How about page 3...
Associates may only defend themselves or others to the extent necessary to disengage the Suspect and withdraw from the situation. After disengaging, associates should contact law enforcement.
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby mrokern on Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:56 pm

RobD wrote:
Andrew Rothman wrote:The policy is available as a link from the news story. In part, it reads, REPEATEDLY:

PUT PEOPLE FIRST. Protecting the physical well-being of suspects, customers, and Walmart associates is your first priority.


How about page 3...
Associates may only defend themselves or others to the extent necessary to disengage the Suspect and withdraw from the situation. After disengaging, associates should contact law enforcement.


You stick a gun in my back, disengaging the suspect involves whatevertheheckIneedtodo in order to stop you from hurting me or other people.
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Re: Wal-Mart fires employees for disarming gunman. Tell them no!

Postby RobD on Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:25 am

mrokern wrote:
RobD wrote:How about page 3...
Associates may only defend themselves or others to the extent necessary to disengage the Suspect and withdraw from the situation. After disengaging, associates should contact law enforcement.


You stick a gun in my back, disengaging the suspect involves whatevertheheckIneedtodo in order to stop you from hurting me or other people.


Yep.
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