Speaking of gun safes...

[V Man]

I think it is the best thing you can get for that kind of money. They are way better than a Stack-on metal cabinet for the same money and I only have a few guns so it is the perfect size.

Good Luck!

[FJ540]

I'm not saying they're junk, but rather they cut a corner and didn't reinforce the load bearing edge to distribute the point load from prying on the door. That's why they were able to peel the door open in the video. The 1" pins essentially pulled through the 14 gauge inside edge. If you just put some heavier steel behind that, it would make it much more difficult to breech.


Stack-on stuff is absolute crap. I have a 2 drawer tool cabinet from them I used in my mig cart to store consumables and accessories and it's about as flimsy as they come.

[JoeH]

Buy a Fort Knox and be done with it.

[prushin]

Since Ace's brother is no longer available...I'll try to fill in.

The multiple lock safes of the past are gone for a reason. Mulltiple locks=multiple points of failure. If you build or modify a safe with multiple locks be ready to perform maintenance on the door hinge (good doors are heavy). Even top-of-the-line government approved safes are prone to sagging doors and binding dogs if they're not maintained. Be prepared to spend more on steel to reinforce the lock sites too. One of the reasons that cheaper cold rolled sheet is used so much these days is that history has shown that you don't get much more security using hardened plate for the body as just using small plates around the lock to prevent drilling. Dogs are also made with cold rolled bar stock now (with a hardened rod in the center on expensive sets). It takes a lot of bending to break a 1/2" bar. Using hardened plate for the dogging catches is more common now than it used to be. It prevents drilling and punching the dogs.

I'm not going to argue that building your own cabinet out of 1/4" plate wouldn't be more secure (from a break-in standpoint) than anything you'd buy stamped out of 18Ga. Fire resistance might be a sticking point though. Modern fire and water resistant safes have door seals that are designed to swell when heated. This makes them more likely to resist the water used to put out the fire. It also makes them a pain in the *** to repair after a fire. I can't think of a place beyond manufacturers or their reps to purchase door seals. I'm not saying it can't be done. Just saying I wouldn't trust it without testing and who wants to set their safe in a bonfire and then repair it even if it performs well.

Given the quality of most residential grade locks these days, I wouldn't expect them to be much good at stopping a thief. If you want to get me started on the quality of residential locksets we should start a new thread. Short version...they're crap.

My guns are in a pair of those cheap (and I agree, they are cheap) Stack On cabinets. I changed the hinges, added hinge side dogs, reinforced the dogging sites on the door frame, reinforced the attachment points, and replaced the locks with Medeco cabinet cylinders. The only heirlooms I have are pistols at this point and those are in a Schwab fire safe. I don't worry about someone getting the cheap cabinets open. Most thieves aren't carrying a tool chest and they're not going to get the safe out of the house before the cops show up for the alarm call.

Again, I'm not saying spend as little as possible or that there's no way you can build a fairly secure safe on your own. If you want to buy a gun safe to be as big a problem for thieves as possible, I'd recommend looking for a used UL listed safe or buying from a locksmith that carries safes (if you've got the bucks).

If you want to roll your own, don't skimp on the lock. You can get a used Sargent & Greenleaf or Kaba lock for about the cost of 4 residential dead bolts. Heck, a brand new S&G electronic lock with the keypad wholesales for $120 from the cheapest to $400 for a biometric. They are not easy to open. They're a pain to drill (and I can slap a template over the lock that tells me exactly where to put the holes), they are not going to get knocked off or be punched out, they're durable (IIRC the lowest grade is rated at 100K operations), and they're not painfully hard to reset a combination.

I honestly think it would be cool to see what you could build. You're not trying to mass produce a product for maximum profit, so it would be cheaper to build much more than you'd buy. I'm just much too lazy (and a horrible welder as well) to build my own safe. I always tell my wife that if the gun collection gets big or valuable enough to warrant more security that I'll build a 6'x8' reinforced block room and build my own door. I don't know if I look forward to doing it though. That seems like a lot of sweat and (with my welding skills) a lot of grinding.

[justaguy]

http://www.graffundersafes.com/index.html

[FJ540]

My donor enclosure skin was brought home tonight. I'm not posting this project online, so you'll have to guess what I come up with. Sorry.

I have been thinking about an electronic lock. I'm not so worried about combos and such, I plan on making it so alien to a cracker they won't know where to start.

Like I said, I have all the needed tools on the premises to cut open any safe given enough time and knowledge of the tools. I've got a 8" metal cutting circular saw that uses carbide teeth and does about 8" a minute in 3/4" MS plate with no measurable heat input to the cut. 1/4" is cut at the same speed as plywood. IOW, I could open that safe in the video in under 30 seconds given access to a single 15A 120v outlet - myself.

So, for my house the main issue is delaying target locating.

[justaguy]

I'm not so worried about combos and such, I plan on making it so alien to a cracker they won't know where to start.

Try 29R-27L-1R. That will really **** with their heads.

Do you have a home security system, dogs, and bars over your windows? That would slow them down.

[FJ540]

http://www.k-bid.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi ... a164/204/1

Doesn't look like it took the home owner much trouble getting it open - from the side.

[mnglocker]

Not worth it at that price. By the time you get it back to working condition you can buy a new and better one for less.

[FJ540]

I was amazed at the current price of 300+ for a disabled lock and access portal. It's not worth that much in parts.

[mnglocker]

I was amazed at the current price of 300+ for a disabled lock and access portal. It's not worth that much in partsscrap.

Fixed it for you.

[FJ540]

Well, if you were using it as a parts donor for building a safe closet, I could see it having some value. In scrap it's not worth 20 bucks.

[EJSG19]

More and more I'm thinking of just building in a locking closet or room to my house instead of buying a gun safe. Money being the issue, as well as the fact that most safes under $2,000 aren't much better than a school locker to a determined thief has me wondering why I woulnd't just put about $300-500 worth of lumber, drywall, and steel plates (diamond plate preferably ) and a good locking mechanism in.

Whether its a safe or a homeade closet, the thief will know what he's looking at anyway. I'm more just concerned with keeping kids out, and "worthless thieves" who don't have any mechanical knowledge or motivation to break into something that is "stubborn".

I still like the idea of a Zanotti, just have myself conflicted over homeade vs. store bought.

[1911fan]

I prefer deceit to strength, creating hiding places that do not show, and do not inspire someone to look closer has my vote.

[EJSG19]

I prefer deceit to strength, creating hiding places that do not show, and do not inspire someone to look closer has my vote.

I smell a day of power tools, couple brews, and BS in the near future. I think my basement is a good candidate for your expertise to be practiced.

What guy wouldn't want to come help me build something like this? Can't imagine anyone saying no to that...

I don't know how I'd hide something like that, other than it looking like a utility closet or something like that. I'd like it to have at least 4'x4' of area on the floor. Might be nice to have extra storage space behind locked doors some time for who knows what.