Shooting at Bill's South??

[hammAR]

And here I thought that was what they built the High Bridge in St Paul for "Highest bridge in Saint Paul -Smith Ave (High) Bridge, 160 feet above the Mississippi River"...................

[Fast351]

I know Clay pretty well, and from some of the stories he's told me I don't know how he does it. Saturdays at Bills are pretty scary, to the point I quit going there. And he has to run the whole mess. Hats off to him for a job noone wants.

Godspeed to the victims.

[1911fan]

I don't have a running count but this is not even close to being the first time its happened there...........


Its the cowards way out when its done that way.


ITs my understanding from another source that he was not revived.

[someone1980]

I don't have a running count but this is not even close to being the first time its happened there...........

From what I have heard, there is a reason there is no longer carpet in there. Cement is easier to clean. Which is a cold and depressing thought.

[Seismic Sam]

Sad to say, but this isn't even close to the first time this has happened at Bill's, and people DO occasionally come in there to deliberately commit suicide with a rented handgun. Even though they try to screen these people out, they can sometimes pass muster as a normal enough human being to get hold of a gun and some ammo. I talked to a guy who was there when it happened once, and he was shooting a few lanes down when this guy came in, even hung up a target, and then just did himself with one round.

[joelr]

I don't have a running count but this is not even close to being the first time its happened there...

I've heard of three other such incidents, and was told (how reliably, I dunno) that all were with rented guns.

Roger tends to bring that up when people suggest he get into the lucrative practice of gun rental. (A $500-at-wholesale gun can easily be rented hundreds times at fifteen bucks; even adding on the additional insurance costs, it's basically like printing lots of money. And, this sort of unpleasantness aside, it's a good deal for the person renting -- it's definitely worth more than fifteen bucks to me to know if I'm not going to want to buy a given gun.)

[Fiery Red XIII]

I don't have a running count but this is not even close to being the first time its happened there...........


Its the cowards way out when its done that way.


ITs my understanding from another source that he was not revived.

The guy that did it this time was awake, and walking after the fact...he even said someone else had shot him. He was transported to a local hospital...from the wound, I am guessing he shot through frontal lobe, or in between lobes, or the bullet rode the interior of the skull...I'll check on it.

Red

[Pat]

Anybody hear how Clay is fairing?

PM's encouraged...

[cmj685]

The whole topic does bring up an interesting slant for each of us--kinda' the whole "there but for the grace of God go I" angle. Most of us know enough not to mix guns and alcohol. But no one can choose depression, and often times those who are depressed do not even realize it... or begin to comprehend the far-reaching implications in the life. One of the things depression does is numb the person to it and its effects. And who among us has not been significantly depressed at some time due to either acute circumstances or long-term circumstances or heredity or even medication being taken or....?? Did you ever give thought to whether the time might come when you could be a danger to yourself or others due to such circumstances, and might not even realize it? How would it be preventable? What safeguards are there in our lives in such a case? Or with guns handily available to us is there a good possibility...?

[jac714]

Clay is taking care of himself.

He seems like he is doing OK.

I'll let him know people are thinking about him.

[Old Dude]

I'm glad to hear that Clay seems to be doing well. I cannot imagine he trauma involved in seeing the aftermath of someone doing that. Please let him know that there is help out there should this incident become an issue with him.

Obviously, depression and suicide are linked. People who are not depressed are very, very unlikely to be suicidal. People who are depressed are much more likely, but that does not mean that all people with depression are going to attempt suicide. Many depressed people don't have the get-up-and-go to go get their firearm and load it for a suicide attempt. And people with depression are good enough at hiding the extent of their illness to fool psychologists. As with any illness, people have to be honest with themselves about what it is they have and be willing to address their issues. As far as I am concerned, there are no fool-proof indicators for depression or suicide since they require one to be honest.

There are no easy answers here. The "best" answer is to maintain close relationships with people, but that is something people with depression may not be able, or willing, to do. It's a Catch-22.

[dismal]

Many depressed people don't have the get-up-and-go to go get their firearm and load it for a suicide attempt.

I've heard a few health care professionals state that when people start getting treatment (medicine or therapy) for depression, the likelyhood for suicide actually goes up for a while. Seems that with treatment, they start feeling good enough about themselves that they think it's worth the effort to kill themselves.

But yeah, no easy answers. Just be there for your friends and family.

[QuietOldGuy]

I was just in Bill's on Tues for a few minutes and poked around the range waiting for a gun to get fixed. They had signs taped to the displays down there restating the rules for renting guns. I can't remember the wording exactly, one stipulation was that the renter had to be over 18 years old. I forget the second rule. The third rule is that there now must be two people on the lane in order to rent a gun. Is that new?? I know I've been in there in the past and rented when I was alone.

[plblark]

That's new. IS that at both locations? I know some ranges in NC and California do that for just this reason but hate to see it here.

If theres room in the policy for regulars, then it may be workable for me. It's not always convenient to round up another body to go try out a different gun though. I guess if they DID make exceptions for regulars and heaven forbid a regular did this to themselves with a rented gun, they'd have opened themselves up a bit.

I think the rule is a bad method to fix a very difficult problem.

[princewally]

I'd be surprised if that rule got applied to regulars. If they know who you are, know you come in with your own guns, they can probably be pretty sure you're not going to rent a gun to kill yourself with.

I hope.