1911 Safety Question

[hammAR]

Glad that you made it Dave...............look forward to your input, logic, inside to the media, and .......
well anyhow, welcome....

.

[ttousi]

Thanks for catching up with us Dave

[GregM]

Hi, everbody! This is Dave Matheny, author of "Handgun Basics" and frequent poster on the TCCarry forum. My first-ever post here.

There are two separate questions here. One is: Why carry the gun this way at all? It will require either two hands -- weak-hand thumb to cock the hammer -- or an awkward reach with the shooting-hand thumb to cock the hammer. Remember that this is not a Single Action Army, or some such gun designed from the beginning to be cocked with the shooting-hand thumb. It's pretty darn awkward to do. Try it with an empty chamber and see for yourself.

The second is the question of risk in carrying this way. I don't think it's potentially hazardous. The actual danger from the gun falling and landing on the hammer, with a round in the chamber, appears to be wildly exagerrated, to put it mildly. In the past, on other forums, I've quoted a set of experiments conducted by an engineer who did a series of drop-tests with a 1911 slide and barrel, with the firing pin spring removed, and a primed case in the chamber. He finally reached a height of 13 feet (if I remember correctly), that being the longest piece of PVC pipe he had. Even from that height, the primer was barely marked, let alone fired.

So, my opinon, for what it's worth, is: You could carry that way, but there's no reason to.

Also, Hollywood does things for show-business's sake that are unrelated to reality. The clickety-click you hear when a 1911 is raised is dubbed in after filming by what are called Foley Artists, who work with sounds.

Thanks, Dave --- and welcome!

[BRIT_in_the_weeds]

Good to see you in here Dave.

[Rags]

Thanks for the warm welcome, everybody.

(And, for you Simpsons fans:
"Hi, everybody!"
"Hi, Dr. Nick!")

[Rags]

Sorry, but my dang computer lost a long reply I was working on earlier. (Remember, it was never you but the computer. Stupid computer.)

Anyway -- The present physics question actually differs from the situation I described above. That was for a 1911, or any similar gun, if dropped on its muzzle.

The present situation is: 1911 dropped on hammer with hammer down. Well, the hammer is resting on the slide and it would take an extreme amount of force for that energy to be transmitted and somehow bounce back and propel the firing pin, against spring resistance, forward hard enough to ignite the primer. I don't want to just make up numbers here, but I would be willing to give 100-to-1 odds that it would take the hammer spur slamming into a solid obejct at 100 mph or better to do that. And even then. . .

Anyway, dropping the gun from shoulder height does not produce that kind of force.

[GregM]

In Beverly Hills Cop 1 and Last Man Standing, Eddie Murphy and Bruce Willis carry their 1911's with the hammer down. I know this because, at some point, both guys de-cock their guns with their shooting hands (Bruce de-cocks TWO guns, of course).

Just for the hell of it, I tried de-cocking an unloaded 1911 with one hand. It's not possible. You have to take your hand off the grip safety, which means the trigger won't work.

So, once again, Hollywood has lied to us. Sometimes I don't mind it so much, but this is different.

[cobb]

So, once again, Hollywood has lied to us.

[Ramoel]

Indeed you can uncock with one hand. You thumb the hammer back far enough with your finger on the trigger and the hammer will dis-engage the grip safety, squeeze the trigger and you can then lower the hammer. Works on my 1911's and every 1911 I carried in the military.

[GregM]

Indeed you can uncock with one hand. You thumb the hammer back far enough with your finger on the trigger and the hammer will dis-engage the grip safety, squeeze the trigger and you can then lower the hammer. Works on my 1911's and every 1911 I carried in the military.

I get it now --- thanks!

[selurcspi]

Point of accuracy!

In Beverly Hills Cop, Eddie Murphy carried a Browning High Power, which has no grip saftey.

[GregM]

Point of accuracy!

In Beverly Hills Cop, Eddie Murphy carried a Browning High Power, which has no grip saftey.

In that case, Hollywood wasn't lying in either movie. I retract my earlier accusation, and will now go sit in the corner.

[JDR]

I can't imagine where there is any circumstance where anyone would want a 1911 with a live round chambered and the hammer all the way down. On what occasion would that be a more practical way to carry the firearm? Just try one handed cocking a 1911, as your drawing to fire.

Cocked and locked is the only to carry a 1911.(my opinion....I know, I know, It's like as......., everyone has them) It's a whole lot easer to "memorize" pushing down the safety during your draw.

[Pat]

Carrying a 1911, with the hammer down and a live round in the chamber is just very, very bad.

- How do you safely bring the pistol into this condition, without a big risk of it going BOOM?

- Most "traditional" 1911's do not incorporate the Schwartz safety, which interlocks movement of the firing pin with depression of the grip safety. The only thing holding the firing pin off of the primer is a wee, bitty spring. And when did you last change your firing pin spring?

- Pretend your 1911 was a Colt, single action six shooter. These guns are always carried with five rounds chambered, and the hammer lowered over the empty, sixth chamber.

Spend some time on the m1911.org forum. Great folks over there and tons of technical resources.

[Pinnacle]

Keep the thing cocked and locked and keep your little booger hooks off of the bang switch.

1911 is meant to be carried like that - not cocked and uncocked all the time - this is a potentially dangerous situation. If for any reason and I cannot think of one good one - you MUST use both hands

Firing grip (BOTH HANDS) - depress grip safety lock thumb on hammer pull trigger - release grip safety and lower hammer to half cock.