Derringers

[Squib Joe]

American Derringer has been making the 45-70 model M-4 "Alaskan" for years. You will hurt yourself if you use it incorrectly

The top barrel is 45-70, the bottom 410/45LC

[Motobob]

I wanna see this 45-70 derringer!! No offense personally, but I'm not going to believe that somebody actually made one of these unless I see the caliber markings on the barrel. Considering that this gun comes standard with the capability to shoot .410 shotshells, which is fairly common, how can you tell the difference between a .410 chamber and a 45-70 chamber?
My brother will send me pics of the chambering tomorrow but I was able to find a old brochure on gun broker listing the 45/70 derringer from American Derringer.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewIt ... m=85402486

Reference pic 4

And BTW, I don't need one of these - I have one of the original T/C Contenders in 44 mag with the lightweight octagon barrel, and the recoil from this gun with factory loads will try to surgically shave your thumb clean off your hand, and the extended trigger guard will bone bruise your second knuckle with every shot.

That's great because you certainly don't deserve one with your attitude.
No offense personally of course.

[fatboy97]

The American Derringer sounds like a very interesting backup carry piece... does any twin cities gun shop carry one? I'd like to see one and feel one in person before considering one.

[Seismic Sam]

I wanna see this 45-70 derringer!! No offense personally, but I'm not going to believe that somebody actually made one of these unless I see the caliber markings on the barrel. Considering that this gun comes standard with the capability to shoot .410 shotshells, which is fairly common, how can you tell the difference between a .410 chamber and a 45-70 chamber?
My brother will send me pics of the chambering tomorrow but I was able to find a old brochure on gun broker listing the 45/70 derringer from American Derringer.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewIt ... m=85402486

Reference pic 4

And BTW, I don't need one of these - I have one of the original T/C Contenders in 44 mag with the lightweight octagon barrel, and the recoil from this gun with factory loads will try to surgically shave your thumb clean off your hand, and the extended trigger guard will bone bruise your second knuckle with every shot.

That's great because you certainly don't deserve one with your attitude.
No offense personally of course.

No offense taken. What you described was beyond the limits of what I could believe, so I asked for a reality check. If nothing else, I would guess that with the current limits of product liability law (particularly against firearms manufacturers), making a 45-70 derringer would be an open invitation to multiple lawsuits for personal injury. What kind of responsible firearms manufacturer would make a gun like this in the first place?? Considering some of the personal injury cases I have seen in the medical field, a 45-70 derringer is so far over the line that I simply couldn't believe it.

[Squib Joe]

Case closed?

[Pat Cannon]

American Derringer has been making the 45-70 model M-4 "Alaskan" for years. You will hurt yourself if you use it incorrectly

Wow. I think you will hurt yourself if you use it at all. That's bordering on the concept of the handheld Claymore.

[Rem700]

I think in this case they should make place of mfg Wacko Tx
I have shot my brother inlaws T/C believe it tobe a 10" barrel in 45/70 it thumps yeah real good. Been trying to get him to shoot some of my handload 500gr.

[Seismic Sam]

American Derringer has been making the 45-70 model M-4 "Alaskan" for years. You will hurt yourself if you use it incorrectly

Wow. I think you will hurt yourself if you use it at all. That's bordering on the concept of the handheld Claymore.

Yes, I can't see anyway that you could shoot this and stay in one piece. Add to that the fact that your muzzle velocity will be horribly degraded by the incredible 3/8" or rifling, not to mention that rifling that short could produce absolutely horrible accuracy, plus the fact that it would be impossible to grab and sight the gun quickly, and then stack that up against a charging grizzly bear (and you only have ONE shot), and you pretty much have a gun that will get you killed if you ever try to use it for its supposed purpose. I guess I'm lucky I didn't bet motobob $20 that this thing didn't exist, because then I'd be out $20, and that's a bet I wouldn't have believed that I could have lost. Why doesn't this company just skip the foreplay and come out with a Smith 500 derringer, to make absoluetly sure they injure EVERY customer they sell to??

[hicap45z]

American Derringer has been making the 45-70 model M-4 "Alaskan" for years. You will hurt yourself if you use it incorrectly

Wow. I think you will hurt yourself if you use it at all. That's bordering on the concept of the handheld Claymore.

I'm real curious as to just how much recoil there actually would be. Considering how short the barrel is, I could believe that most of the powder energy is spent in a smoldering pile at your feet after the bullet exits the barrel.
I'm not curious enough to actually try this with my own hand, though.

Z

[BRIT_in_the_weeds]

Anyone making a pocket rocket in say................... 12 gauge 3 1/2" hevi-load?
I want one...............


Ooooh, and while I'm having these masochistic thoughts...........who wants to bash me in the bollocks with a baseball bat??

[princewally]

......who wants to bash me in the bollocks with a baseball bat??

err....ok, since you asked.

We could probably find someone will you tase you there, too.

[BRIT_in_the_weeds]

You'll have to take a number.

xnay on the nad zapping though

[1911fan]

Sam, I agree with you on the comments about letting your life ride on a cheap POS gun.

My posts were not about what was the cheapest, but rather what was the smallest that still worked. 41 rem rimfire was pretty anemic in its day, but before penicillin, any gunshot was going to really mess you up, and that was what a lot of people relied on. Today, too many BG's survive getting shot because of great medical care and they seem to treat it almost as a badge of manhood to have at least one pucker wound on them.

The two people I know who carry derringers as EDC work in the NPE and need the smallest package available. Both carry short barrel .38 loads in theirs and find it to be the most power in a manageable size that they handle. In fact the guy has a .45 lc that he bought before finding out it was too much to hold on to.

Vs the Idea that a multi shot .32 or 380 is better, I have a friend who is a trauma surgeon/anesthesiologist who just left the service of the Navy and is working in JAX at the Mayo clinic down there. He was recently on call when a young man was brought in with 9 GSW all from a .380 and he lived, 6 were thorax hits. They loose too much energy getting thru the ribs to continue on thru. Granted one lucky hit on a Aorta, or pulmonary artery, and that would be that, but if you get 6 hits on a BG in the chest and he does not die, and in fact is talking to the MD's who are going to work on him, you have to ask yourself if a keltec or a Tomcat is worth it.

Like in the movies, the derringer is a surprise weapon, the "where in the hell did that come from" gun. It is meant at a means of last resort, a "chin gun". The BG does not see, lets his guard down, and then bam, you get a shot off into his ribs or under his chin.

Re the 45 70, I saw one at Bill's north, after the first shot, the guy was out asking if the counter had ice packs. it was a spectacular display of flame and flash, but I bet on a chrono, that thing is barely making 600 fps.

[Seismic Sam]

Dear 1911fan:

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I agree with pretty much everything you have brought up, and I'm not surprised about the 6 .380 shots not being able to close the deal. Over on packing.org there was a guy with an old POS Llama .380 that he managed to shoot himself in the leg with, and the hollowpoint bullet went through and through the tissue in his thigh and never expanded. What was extraordinary, however, was that the guy reported that after getting the wound dressed, it didn't hurt much more than a bad bruise. (!!!) So much for a .380 being able to incapacitate a person with the pain of being shot....

The derringer is indeed a hideout weapon that was originally designed to be used across a felt covered card table, and in that context your description of its use is correct. You got some guy nearly (or actually) on top of you, and the little two-shot comes out, and you can't miss, and the assailant has two slugs in him in the place that you pressed the gun to his torso. If it goes down that way, you're in good shape, and there isn't much left to chance.

In the case where you're in a parking garage, however, and some perp pulls a gun on you at a distance of 21 feet and the derringer is your primary and not a BUG, what are you going to do? If you run towards him to close the distance you'll get shot for sure, and your chances of making effective hits at 21 feet are NOT good, and you only have two shots, and the perp can SEE that fact if he can see the derringer at all. I would think in that situation a Kel-Tec .380 would be better, because you could take a chance with two or three shots which should make him run away, and you still have ammo left if he closes on you. With only two shots, however, you're sort of screwed if the perp ISN'T right in your face and you can't get him to close on you, and the fact that you would ever WANT a perp to close on you kind of highlights that particular problem with a derringer.

[1911fan]

Sam,

I agree, which is why the woman is currently trying out ways to manage something with more pop, that she can wear safely, and with utmost discretion. Remember, she is making good money, has worked her way up for a long time, does not want to change jobs, but exposure would get her fired in an instant. Although my cs9 smith is just a little bit bigger in overall dimensions, the weight and bulk is much larger. We have discussed her getting a carry purse, but they are subject to inspection on most every day, she rides mass transit, so leaving something bigger in the car is out, and her office is not secure so the only option is on body carry, and for her to do so means under her blouse is the only option. I have offered to help her get a rohrbaugh, but I really need to have one for her to try, and with work right now, I just don't have a spare grand to buy a gun i just don't need. (silly me need as a reason to buy a gun) Mine has been sold and is not available for her to try.