GSG-1911 .22 CAL

[White Horseradish]

Federally licensed firearms dealers are prohibited from selling a Saturday Night Special, and no person may manufacture or assemble a Saturday Night Special. Minn. Stat. § 624.716. Section 624.712, subd. 4 defines a Saturday Night Special as a handgun "other than an antique firearm or a pistol for which the propelling force is carbon dioxide, air or other vapor, or children's pop guns or toys, having a frame, barrel, cylinder, slide or breechblock:

Of any material having a melting point ("liquidus") of less than 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit;

Of any material having an ultimate tensile strength of less than 55,000 pounds per square inch; or

Of any powdered metal having a density of less than 7.5 grams per cubic centimeter."

I have no idea as to what alloy GSG is made of. Anyone know?

ATI has no information on this on their website.

[LarryFlew]

Not legal in MN? Someone better inform Bill's in Circle Pines. They have a few of them on the shelf as of 2 hours ago.

Bill's had Chiappas too and they are not legal in MN either. Saw several of each at the Hutch gun show.

[ijosef]

Update: On 9-20-2010 I posted .jpg of a ATI 1911 .22 cal firearm that blew up. Our customer came in with the firearm to show us. I called ATI and my wholesale representatives to see what could be done to help my customer out. I told A.T.I. That we should take care of our customer right away to keep him happy so the we could avoid any legal actions from him.( My customer was really nice about the whole thing and didn't say I'm going to sued you and A.T.I., because Metal fragments hit me in the face.) At first ATI was very heplful in the first 2 hours of calling them. They said they would send out a UPS pick up tag and shipp a new firearm out a.s.a.p.. A.T.I called my customer up the same day and was really nice to him and told him everything would be taken care of. However the next day I got a call form A.T.I. Representative saying that they would not shipp a replacement firearm out and the only thing they would to is to give me a credit for the firearm and said that this firearm was not legal in Minnesota, I ask if A.T.I. if they could send a AT92F 15RD 4.3" BL FS to keep the customer happy, A.T.I. said NO. So my next step was to call my customer up and tell him that my wholesale rep. from Ellett Brothers and I would give him a MKIII SS Ruger for him trouble. He was really happy with this. The long and short of this is that A.T.I. Customer service SUCK'S.

Kudos for trying to get an ATF92F out of them. It doesn't surprise me that they declined, given the fact that the 92F is a more expensive gun than the 1911 .22. I can also understand why they opted for a refund instead of fixing the gun given Minnesota's [stupid] law. If they fixed and shipped back a firearm in violation of that law, it could spell trouble for the company as a whole if something were to go awry. That said, I wonder how the gun show guys and the dealers here in Minnesota get ahold of them. Now, when they said you get a "credit," what exactly does that mean? I think a good resolution would be for them to cut you a check for the full list price of the gun.

On a side note, how are the ATF92F pistols?

[ijosef]

Update: On 9-20-2010 I posted .jpg of a ATI 1911 .22 cal firearm that blew up. Our customer came in with the firearm to show us. I called ATI and my wholesale representatives to see what could be done to help my customer out. I told A.T.I. That we should take care of our customer right away to keep him happy so the we could avoid any legal actions from him.( My customer was really nice about the whole thing and didn't say I'm going to sued you and A.T.I., because Metal fragments hit me in the face.) At first ATI was very heplful in the first 2 hours of calling them. They said they would send out a UPS pick up tag and shipp a new firearm out a.s.a.p.. A.T.I called my customer up the same day and was really nice to him and told him everything would be taken care of. However the next day I got a call form A.T.I. Representative saying that they would not shipp a replacement firearm out and the only thing they would to is to give me a credit for the firearm and said that this firearm was not legal in Minnesota, I ask if A.T.I. if they could send a AT92F 15RD 4.3" BL FS to keep the customer happy, A.T.I. said NO. So my next step was to call my customer up and tell him that my wholesale rep. from Ellett Brothers and I would give him a MKIII SS Ruger for him trouble. He was really happy with this. The long and short of this is that A.T.I. Customer service SUCK'S.

Kudos for trying to get an ATF92F out of them. It doesn't surprise me that they declined, given the fact that the 92F is a more expensive gun than the 1911 .22. I can also understand why they opted for a refund instead of fixing the gun given Minnesota's [stupid] law. If they fixed and shipped back a firearm in violation of that law, it could spell trouble for the company as a whole if something were to go awry. That said, I wonder how the gun show guys and the dealers here in Minnesota get ahold of them. Now, when they said you get a "credit," what exactly does that mean? I think a good resolution would be for them to cut you a check for the full list price of the gun.

On a side note, how are the ATF92F pistols?

[1000]

On a side note, how are the ATF92F pistols?

I have a AT92F ran about 4,000 rds in it and sofar no problem.

[White Horseradish]

Kudos for trying to get an ATF92F out of them. It doesn't surprise me that they declined, given the fact that the 92F is a more expensive gun than the 1911 .22.

I bet the legal bit had a lot more to do with it. I think the grand pronouncement of their customer service sucking is a bit premature. Take it up with the legislature.

[Squib Joe]

I've heard four different answers from two distributors, an ATI sales rep and an import manager. Nobody seems to know the real answer, but if they aren't going to warranty the product I'm going to send em back.

[1000]

I've heard four different answers from two distributors, an ATI sales rep and an import manager. Nobody seems to know the real answer, but if they aren't going to warranty the product I'm going to send em back.

ATI will refund my cost. But I would think that a gun that blew up on someone, would be something ATI would like to make right. At first it seem like they did, but that was one day and the next day...well lets said NOT. The owner of this 1911 .22 was nice about it and we try to keep him happy. If he got piss off and went to a lawyer...well I know I couldn't afford a lawyer. We took the high road without the help of ATI and give the guy a New Ruger MKIII SS 5.5. Today he came in to pick it up and was Very Happy with his Ruger.

[White Horseradish]

ATI will refund my cost. But I would think that a gun that blew up on someone, would be something ATI would like to make right..

With a replacement that carries a potential cost of a lawyer to fight prosecution from the state of MN? How is a refund not "making right" in this case?

At first it seem like they did, but that was one day and the next day...well lets said NOT. The owner of this 1911 .22 was nice about it and we try to keep him happy. If he got piss off and went to a lawyer...well I know I couldn't afford a lawyer.

Can ATI afford a lawyer to fight the state of MN?

We took the high road without the help of ATI and give the guy a New Ruger MKIII SS 5.5.

So the money they refunded you did not help to pay for that Ruger?

Today he came in to pick it up and was Very Happy with his Ruger.

Good for him. Good for you.


What I am getting at is that I don't see the unwillingness of ATI to stick out their neck in the legal sense as bad customer service. Do you have any information on the alloy? Did you give it to them? If the answer is yes, they suck. If the answer is no, I can't really blame them. They are trying to follow the law and the law is stupid.

[1911fan]

This is no different from GM or Ford not selling certain parts in Cali that would change a CARB certified car into a non CARB certified car, even if you are a non resident and just visiting.

Fighting "City Hall" as it were, is a no win situation, you as shop owner are not out anything, (that I can tell) and gun buyer got a new pistol, so he's not out anything, and as such, all is done with.

[1000]

ATI will refund my cost. But I would think that a gun that blew up on someone, would be something ATI would like to make right..

With a replacement that carries a potential cost of a lawyer to fight prosecution from the state of MN? How is a refund not "making right" in this case?

First I haven't got and refund from ATI. ATI should have offer to replace the firearm with the same value or higher. That is legal to own in Minnesota. This makes good customer PR.

At first it seem like they did, but that was one day and the next day...well lets said NOT. The owner of this 1911 .22 was nice about it and we try to keep him happy. If he got piss off and went to a lawyer...well I know I couldn't afford a lawyer.

Can ATI afford a lawyer to fight the state of MN?

Sure they can, "I can't"

We took the high road without the help of ATI and give the guy a New Ruger MKIII SS 5.5.

So the money they refunded you did not help to pay for that Ruger?

The ruger cost more for us than the 1911. As I said before we haven't been refunded anything and this could take months.

Today he came in to pick it up and was Very Happy with his Ruger.

Good for him. Good for you.


What I am getting at is that I don't see the unwillingness of ATI to stick out their neck in the legal sense as bad customer service. Do you have any information on the alloy? Did you give it to them? If the answer is yes, they suck. If the answer is no, I can't really blame them. They are trying to follow the law and the law is stupid.

We did not have any info on the alloy. ATI did and did not let anyone know this, until a the 1911 blew up.They did not follow the law here.

[White Horseradish]

First I haven't got and refund from ATI. ATI should have offer to replace the firearm with the same value or higher. That is legal to own in Minnesota. This makes good customer PR.

Fair enough. Do they make one?

We did not have any info on the alloy. ATI did and did not let anyone know this, until a the 1911 blew up.They did not follow the law here.

I would think that being located in NY they had no idea that we have a law like this. Most remote sellers leave it to the locals to worry about that. We have a dumb law here, sucks for us.

Incidentally, the law says they are illegal for dealers to sell, nothing about being illegal to own. If their gun has too low of a melting point it would be you on the hook first and ATI second. The customer gets to walk. They are actually covering your butt even more than their own.

[1000]

First I haven't got and refund from ATI. ATI should have offer to replace the firearm with the same value or higher. That is legal to own in Minnesota. This makes good customer PR.

Fair enough. Do they make one?

Yes go to thier web site.

We did not have any info on the alloy. ATI did and did not let anyone know this, until a the 1911 blew up.They did not follow the law here.

I would think that being located in NY they had no idea that we have a law like this. Most remote sellers leave it to the locals to worry about that. We have a dumb law here, sucks for us.

They knew but didn't say anything until this happen. Then they caledl all of their wholesale outlet to tell them do not to shipp to MN and ILL.

Incidentally, the law says they are illegal for dealers to sell, nothing about being illegal to own. If their gun has too low of a melting point it would be you on the hook first and ATI second. The customer gets to walk. They are actually covering your butt even more than their own.

[IDPA Shooter]

I've heard four different answers from two distributors, an ATI sales rep and an import manager. Nobody seems to know the real answer, but if they aren't going to warranty the product I'm going to send em back.

Hi Joe:

My partner is training is an FFL and Jon called Bills Hicks, the distributor where he bought 6 of these guns. They called ATI who said they had other calls and it not a legal gun in MN. Bill Hicks asked him to get the guns back to them, he had sold 4 and was using two more as demos and training guns in our basic class.

He is calling folks and one already brought his back. No issues with any of them , at least with ours and the one he has back. That is strike 3 for ATI, he will not be buying any more of their products.

[Squib Joe]

My partner is training is an FFL and Jon called Bills Hicks, the distributor where he bought 6 of these guns. They called ATI who said they had other calls and it not a legal gun in MN. Bill Hicks asked him to get the guns back to them, he had sold 4 and was using two more as demos and training guns in our basic class.

I didn't get mine from Hicks but at all of the trade shows last year it was promoted as a "Minnesota legal" gun by ATI reps and several of the distributors. Same thing happened with the Chiappa 1911 the year before. You would think they would do a little more checking before making these claims.