Emmer concedes

[Holland&Holland]

Arnie, Al and Dave are already feeling the no love from the party, above and beyond the pale of getting booted. All three have lost significant consultant contracts over this, and will loose a lot more. Likewise some of the others who joined in on the horner support are now finding that plum jobs that would have been theirs for the asking are drying up, and they have been tainted by this and the people in the know are saying, very long memories over this.

Re Emmer's DUI, it was in college. I hate to say it, but if you had to look at everyone who went to college and examined their behaviors when in college, No one would get elected. From the sexual harrassment of dorm raids, convincing semi willing young wimin that "nah, there's no booze in here" to the contests of drinking, events on spring break,etc, its all apart of growing up. I have the "it happened in college" rule. If it happened there, its a non starter. Why? because if we based life outcomes on what we did in college, my doctor would be working at MickeyD's, my Banker would be at menards and several others would be in jail, self included. More than likely, most of us never want to find out what our spouses did in college either...

Every time someone brings up Emmers DuI, I ask, but Dayton was DRUNK on the senate floor, particularly during the debates on the responses to 9-11. How many lives did he endanger by being unable and unwilling to effectively evaluate what was the best response to the Attacks on the USA?

Which do you think is a larger risk, a guy who got a DUI and learned from it, or a practicing Drunk who also has admitted to severe Depression and appears to have other mental illness's besides?

Nice generalization. I went to college. Never drank and drove, never "convinced" a "semi willing". If they should be in jail by your admission then they should be in jail. DO NOT justify criminal behavior with age. I do not take it from my teenager and as sure as heck will not take it from someone asking for my vote.

[1911fan]

Nice generalization. I went to college., never "convinced" a "semi willing".

So you struck out in college?













I keeed I keeed

[Holland&Holland]

Nice generalization. I went to college., never "convinced" a "semi willing".

So you struck out in college?













I keeed I keeed

Actually was married with a little one at home.

Fair enough though

[ComradeBurg]

+1

Although I have to say it's sad that gridlock is the best we can hope for.

That's the best form of government. Shoot, the federal government was designed that way.

No the best form of government would be one that constantly strives to make itself smaller and smaller.

[nyffman]

Plenty of folks in this state

who do not drink and drive

. Non-starter in my book. I do not care if it was 50 years ago. Not gubinitorial material. Find someone else.

You're mixing terms.

who do not drink and drive

I do not care if it was 50 years ago.

This is the thinking used by progressives of the "blame America first" crowd. Apply present day morality to events from our history to tear down the opponent. It never happened to me, but I recall a time when police officers may have stopped a person they suspected of having too much to drink, but then followed them to make sure they got home ok. It's just not valid to use the present day group think to judge behaviour 20 years ago. These ideas change over time and to say that the present day concepts are the most valid is laughable. 20 years from now, your kids will look at your antiquated 2010 morality and shake their head in pity at your foolishness. I don't think the DUI was what sunk him. He was just too conservative and outspoken about it. Not to mention the votes that Horner siphoned away from him as alluded to in previous post regarding RINO's Carlson, Durenberger, et al.

[1911fan]

Nyffman,

Thanks for that, that was what I was trying to get at.

When I was in College, it was not only acknowledged that "youthful exuberance" might lead to some lapses in judgment, it was somewhat expected. While there were some limits to what was overlooked, there was a feeling that this was your time to get the wild out of you. That you had a job to do, in getting an education, but as long as that got done, the rest of it would be covered. It was then the pattern that you would have burned out this last bit of human glee and get on with the boring jobs of being CPA's and Actuaries' and Chemists and Lawyers and the like. Therefore, to judge someone today, on what was common activities then, is unfair. It would be like blaming someone who was raised in the 80's for once having big hair and a members only jacket.

Drinking in the late seventies and early eighties was so socially acceptable that they made the drinking age 18 in most states. Prior to that, in most places, DWI's were rarely given out unless you had had an accident or you were unable to stand up. Field sobriety test meant could you talk to the cop without barfing. A whole host of newly minted moralities have sprung up that never existed prior to this generation. My Freshman year dorm had at least a shotgun in every closet, and the idea that it was a bad mix to have college age people and guns together would have been a hilarious joke.

H&H, I did not mean to sound like I was cavalier about drinking and driving, but to put a college aged DUI conviction 20 some years prior against a professional adult who is showing up at work drunk on a regular basis whilst acting on the public's behalf is ludicrous.

[Holland&Holland]

Sorry we will have to disagree on our moral compass. I was raised with one set of morals to apply to all situations. I understand historical context however I have graduated from college and know some people who's actions in college would eliminate them from public office in my mind. To state that they were young and dumb is just rediculous in my mind. Bad decisions early in life mean poor decision maker later. Maybe it was a "different time" but I call it how I see it. By your definition Bonds is hall material.

Oh, and do not think I gave rich boy a pass either. If someone could put forth a quality canidate maybe I could get excited about an election for a change rather than go into deep depression every dang time I go to the polls...

[autobahn]

He lost because of ingrates like Arne Carlson, Al Quie and Dave Durenberger, et al. They decided to publicly support a candidate from another party because their guy didn't win the party nomination.

You're right, in America we can't have people supporting who they think would be the best for minnesota or having independent political thoughts! Always support the party, comrade or you will go to salt mine in siberia!

Did you ever think it's because the party is shifting to the extreme right and more and more Minnesotans that were formerly Republican don't support that shift?

[autobahn]

I just think it's funny that people treat the Republican party as something sacred, as if they can do no wrong and it's everyone else's fault.

It's Horner's fault!

It's Arne's fault!

It's every RINO on the planet's fault!

It's really tiresome and honesty is a really intellectually void point of view.
The fact is, at least in Minnesota, Emmer wasn't the right candidate. Whether that means he was too far to the right, or because of issues with his DUIs (which I find to be a serious offense, personally.), or whatever, it doesn't matter.

Maybe instead of yelling at the moderate conservatives who are being kicked out of the tent for not being right-wing enough, I personally think the Republicans should rethink their strategy here in Minnesota if they want to win. However, I bet the next time around they will try to field another ultra-conservative candidate. Maybe that's a winning strategy with the right candidate? Who knows?

[plblark]

You're right, because to get our beliefs and political wished we should field someone closer to the opposition than to our beliefs...

What color IS the sky in your world?

[autobahn]

You're right, because to get our beliefs and political wished we should field someone closer to the opposition than to our beliefs...

What color IS the sky in your world?

Well at least you admit you're an extremist.

[plblark]

Go ahead, label, marginalize, and mischaracterize opinions that differ from yours.

Pretty sad man.

[autobahn]

Go ahead, label, marginalize, and mischaracterize opinions that differ from yours.

Pretty sad man.

It's not a mischaracterization. It's extremism. It's taken over the Republican party. If you're not ultra-right-wing, you're kicked out.

Just because you don't like the word doesn't mean it isn't accurate.

[plblark]

Just because they don't pander to the opposition and concede ground and principle doesn't make them extreme. It makes them principled.

[autobahn]

Just because they don't pander to the opposition and concede ground and principle doesn't make them extreme. It makes them principled.

But their principles are rapidy approaching the right fringes of the spectrum of politics. Are you denying that the Republican party has taken a huge step to the right in the past 5 years?

It's all fair, I just think it's funny when Republicans wonder why they lost. They would have lost by a lot more had the Dems not put up such a crappy candidate as well.