XCR and PPS43

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XCR and PPS43

Postby David on Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:21 pm

Here are a couple of guns I've gotten in the last two weeks:

Robinson XCR-L
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And a PPS43
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I haven't shot the XCR yet (got it today) but man was it ever an odyssey of lies and ineptitude getting it. The dealer I got it through said he wouldn't be ordering any more, ever, unless Robinson starts going through distributers. I don't blame him. I'll save the story for when someone asks.

It's obviously built really well. The fit and finish is great and the parts all work together like nicely designed and machined parts should. The stock opens and closes easier and smoother than any side-folder I've ever used. It's unbelievably easy to change calibers (and several calibers are actually available for it, unlike other multi-caliber rifles out right now), and it's all metal instead of polymer. Polymer doesn't bother me, but it's nice to have a metal lower in a rifle like this. If it shoots as well as it's built, and is reliable, then it's a winner for sure. The only thing that bothers me a bit is the fact that every part in this rifle is unique to the XCR (no commonality with ARs, for example), and Robinson's long-term viability is an issue. They'll probably be around, since they clearly don't want to get bigger, but it's conceivable that parts may be a problem in the distant future if they go under. I'm going to shoot it Friday morning so I'll have a basic idea of what that's like soon.

I have, however, shot the PPS, and man is that a fun gun to shoot! It's 7.62 x 25, which is dirt cheap (I got 1,260 rounds for $100), and is a much more suitable caliber for a subgun than 9mm. I have several pistols in that caliber as well. The stock is pinned in place, but if you're willing to title the receiver, you could "un-pin" it. Worst case scenario would be milling the parts out and replacing them with a cheap parts kit, which are available. The barrel is already the standard short length, so the stock is all you'd have to do after getting your SBR paperwork approved. The thing is accurate, fast-firing, and gets a lot of questions from people around you. I brought three different types of ammo, and it shot the Russian and Polish stuff flawlessly. The Romanian ammo was inconsistent enough to be useless. Some rounds were so overpowered it was like shooting a 10mm, and others were so underpowered they felt like a .22 and wouldn't cycle the bolt. Everything in between, too. That was a box I picked up at a gun show a few years ago, rather than from a sealed tin, so I won't indict all Romanian ammo based on this one instance. I have a whole tin of it that I'm going to break open and shoot some from it on Friday.

It's built by the Łucznik Arms Factory in Radom, Poland, so you're getting it right from the Commie source. No mismatched parts on built-up American receivers; this is all Polish and built by a company that's been doing it forever. Their American name is Pioneer Arms, but it's the same factory that makes assault rifles, pistols, and subguns for the Polish military. It was taken over by the Germans in WWII, and went back to polish/soviet control after that mess was sorted out. So there's a lot of history here, if you're into that.

Best thing about the PPS? $449, with four mags, and all the ammo you can shoot for about eight cents per round! They have a bunch of them at both Bill's locations.
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby thunderoussilence on Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:48 pm

dROOLING :D
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby Greg on Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:34 pm

I'm liking that PPS-43, not sure what it's good for except for fun and shooting armored zombies.

$308.00 plus shipping here...

http://store.prairiearms.com/store/prod ... -35RD-MAG/
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby Squib Joe on Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:34 pm

Greg wrote:I'm liking that PPS-43, not sure what it's good for except for fun and shooting armored zombies.

$308.00 plus shipping here...

http://store.prairiearms.com/store/prod ... -35RD-MAG/


Might be a typo, but if anyone can get them at that price I would jump on it
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby Greg on Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:57 pm

Squib Joe wrote:
Greg wrote:I'm liking that PPS-43, not sure what it's good for except for fun and shooting armored zombies.

$308.00 plus shipping here...

http://store.prairiearms.com/store/prod ... -35RD-MAG/


Might be a typo, but if anyone can get them at that price I would jump on it


Nope, I called to make sure and then ordered it a few minutes ago. $325.67 including shipping!

20 left in stock at the moment.
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby Squib Joe on Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:01 pm

I got some too. This is 2009 pricing and a good buy even for dealers
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby gyrfalcon on Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:21 pm

David wrote:...The dealer I got it through said he wouldn't be ordering any more, ever, unless Robinson starts going through distributers. I don't blame him. I'll save the story for when someone asks..


I'm kinda interested in the story since Robinson Arms has been a bit annoying to deal with in the past when they imported VEPR's... Any reason why you went with the XCR instead of one of its competitors?
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby Greg on Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:43 pm

Squib Joe wrote:I got some too. This is 2009 pricing and a good buy even for dealers


Good timing!

The website still lists 20 available, but now the price is $388.89, nothing like an $80.00 price increase in a couple of hours!
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby Squib Joe on Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:54 pm

Greg wrote:now the price is $388.89, nothing like an $80.00 price increase in a couple of hours!


I think somebody might have noticed a little mistake. Now to see if they honor the orders. I'm also wondering if these are the older guns with external stock welds... but even if they are, still worth the price.
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby David on Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:16 pm

gyrfalcon wrote:I'm kinda interested in the story since Robinson Arms has been a bit annoying to deal with in the past when they imported VEPR's... Any reason why you went with the XCR instead of one of its competitors?


Regarding the choice, it's because I already have all the competing rifles. The XCR was the last one on the list, not because it's somehow inferior (it might be, but I won't know until I use it a bit), but because I just had never seen one in person. I finally saw one at the zombie shoot last spring, and started thinking it might be a nice addition.

Regarding the story, it's simple enough, and one you'll hear about a lot of manufacturers. I waited over a year for my first SIG556 when the manufacturer said they'd be out long before that. I waited a month or two longer for my SCAR than FN had estimated, and I waited a little longer for my ACR as well. I think the KRISS came out quite late, too. The difference here is that the XCR has been in production for years, and in the case of every one of the other guns, they were new items and the dates offered were clearly estimates. Every time I was given a ship date by Robinson, except perhaps the first estimate of "late August," they were promises.

I ordered the XCR in July and Robinson gave me an "end of August" delivery date. In September I politely reminded them I had been told August, and they basically disavowed any knowledge of my order. Okay, that happens (although I've heard this "excuse" from several other XCR owners so it might be a standard line), so no big deal. They told me it takes 4-6 weeks to build a rifle, but they're pretty sure they can get mine out in two weeks. I'm surprised they didn't grab the next one off the line and send it to me, since I ordered mine long before any other rifle that was in the pipeline, but I've got other guns to shoot so whatever.

In November I ask again what's going on, and they say, "a week and a half." Early December, and it's "one week." Mid December, and it's "shipped." That last one was true, as the rifle came the next day. You would think that the customer service people would follow through with the manufacturing or shipping or sales people when they make promises, but apparently they are just paper pushers and don't really care whether their promises are broken. Thanks for calling, Next!

When the rifle came and it had the wrong barrel on it (I ordered a light barrel and it came with a heavy barrel) I just counted my lucky stars that anything at all had arrived, and I don't plan to ask them to swap it. It just comes right off so I wouldn't have to ship the rifle, but I'm sure they won't send the light barrel until I send them the heavy, and I'm not going to wait five months for a barrel, so screw it. I'm going to order a light barrel and when it arrives in a few months I'll just have two barrels, which isn't all that bad of a thing. Since their customer service is this crappy, they might not be around forever, so I'm going to get a parts kit, and maybe a caliber conversion or two. We'll see if I like it first though.

Anyway, there are loads of similar stories posted all over the place from people getting told what to me are essentially lies, so I don't think my experience is all that unusual. Several people whose stories I read online waited longer than the FIVE MONTHS I had to wait. I did find a dealer who stocks XCR parts and he's supposedly really reputable, so I'm going to get my parts through him, not the factory.

To top it all off, Robinson's website lists EVERY model of the XCR as "in stock" and ready to ship. Same with all their parts. I pointed this out to them in October, but two months later it's the same. And, in none of our correspondence, written or verbal, did I get anything that passed for an attempt at apology. No, "Sorry for the inconvenience," or anything. Just terse, one or two sentence lies about how the gun is practically out the door. Well, the first person to respond was actually pretty helpful and could communicate, but that person must have been fired for making the rest of the crew look bad or something. In my last message I asked them for some kind of reason, and told them that I really wanted to believe that they had unforeseen problems, and I was basically begging them to come up with any reason I could cling to so I could recommend their company, but that message didn't even get a response. I'll add also that all of my phone and e-mail contact with them was exceedingly polite. I never gave them a hard time at all.

So, there you go! I'll decide whether it was all worth it when I shoot it tomorrow, but even if it's a good shooter, prospective buyers of the XCR might want to do some research on the customer service thing before buying, especially if you don't have another gun to shoot.
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby Ken on Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:43 am

Does Bill's have the 7.62x25 ammo in stock? If so, how much? I'm seriously considering running out to get a PPS43 and that would push me over to the "go buy it now" side.
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby Squib Joe on Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:48 am

Ken wrote:Does Bill's have the 7.62x25 ammo in stock? If so, how much? I'm seriously considering running out to get a PPS43 and that would push me over to the "go buy it now" side.


Yes, at both stores. Normally 129.95 for 1260rds, but buy a PPS-43 from me and get it for 100 bucks and get your range pass as well
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby Squib Joe on Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:56 am

David wrote:So, there you go! I'll decide whether it was all worth it when I shoot it tomorrow, but even if it's a good shooter, prospective buyers of the XCR might want to do some research on the customer service thing before buying, especially if you don't have another gun to shoot.


Somehow I think Robinson would have been out of business a long time ago if they didn't make an exceptional product, because they aren't going to coast on their customer service skills. Kimber used to have the same methodology five or six years ago, although they have improved somewhat. They used to pretty much act like they were doing you a favor by letting you call up and order some guns. Just don't dare try to ask when you might see them.
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby Ken on Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:57 am

Squib Joe wrote:
Yes, at both stores. Normally 129.95 for 1260rds, but buy a PPS-43 from me and get it for 100 bucks and get your range pass as well


Excellent. Is that offer good at both locations?
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Re: XCR and PPS43

Postby Squib Joe on Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:58 am

Ken wrote:
Squib Joe wrote:
Yes, at both stores. Normally 129.95 for 1260rds, but buy a PPS-43 from me and get it for 100 bucks and get your range pass as well


Excellent. Is that offer good at both locations?


Yes, while they last
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