Now I need to pick one off the list.

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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby Seismic Sam on Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:20 pm

Brass resizes fine in a standard carbide 9mm tapered die (so do NOT buy a straight walled 38 Super die!!), and the brass is so strong that it's supposed to last for quite a long time. It uses .355 bullets, and seeing as this is a design set up specifically for IDPA, the rounds headspace on the case mouth and the chaber appears to be set up for 38 Supercomp / 9x23 cases.
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby Snowgun on Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:03 am

Seismic Sam wrote:Brass resizes fine in a standard carbide 9mm tapered die (so do NOT buy a straight walled 38 Super die!!), and the brass is so strong that it's supposed to last for quite a long time. It uses .355 bullets, and seeing as this is a design set up specifically for IDPA, the rounds headspace on the case mouth and the chaber appears to be set up for 38 Supercomp / 9x23 cases.



Ok, i'm a reloading Noobz so i'll bite:

What do you mean a design set up specifically for IDPA? I can't wrap my head around what this means....It can't be just power factor...
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby Seismic Sam on Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:25 am

Actually, it has nothing to do with reloading, although the 9x23 can easily (and safely) make major power factor. If you go up on the Tanfoglio website (and perhaps the EAA website) you will see that these guns are approved for IDPA shooting right out of the box, which involves meeting rules that I know very little about. The same situation applies for STI guns, and they also have listings of what shooting classes these guns officially meet.
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby rugersol on Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:36 am

Actually, what Sam meant to say was, it's set-up for USPSA "Open" as you can very economically (w/o spending $100+ per mag or $2,000+ for the gun) have a relatively high capacity (more than with .40+ in similarly sized mags) and yet make "major" ... and probly duct-tape a red-dot on top. :shock:

For IDPA, 9x19 would be preferable ... unless there's no movement on the stage, and you're otherwise standing on a giant piece of sheet-metal bent into a giant funnel into which you get 99% of your brass back! 8-)

Sam, I meant to ask ... does anyone offer a decent 9x19 bbl for that gun ... I mean, that swaps with the .38, it comes with? I would expect so ... but I was curious if ya knew for sure? Presuming such a bbl wouldn't be more than $150, that'd make a very nice total package! :geek:

Hmmm ... now if someone made a 9x19 extended/threaded bbl to take a comp ... and a decent red-dot mount ... that wouldn't be an awful "Open" set-up. Image
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby JJ on Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:54 am

You just have to get a hold of EAA and you can get other barrels/slides. The nice thing about the Witness lineup is you can run 9, 38super, 357 sig, 40s&w, 10mm, and 45 all off the same frame. You just have to call EAA and get the "conversion" slide and get different mags. I would avoid the 9 in the Witness though unless you KNOW you can get the new production Meg-gar mags. I don't recall who was making the Mags for Tanfo, but the 9 and 40 mags have bee a problem since they went to a large frame in '05. Good news is all new Witnesses coming in 9 have the mags now, and they are available directly from EAA
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby rugersol on Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:58 am

JJH wrote:You just have to get a hold of EAA and you can get other barrels/slides. The nice thing about the Witness lineup is you can run 9, 38super, 357 sig, 40s&w, 10mm, and 45 all off the same frame. You just have to call EAA and get the "conversion" slide and get different mags. I would avoid the 9 in the Witness though unless you KNOW you can get the new production Meg-gar mags. I don't recall who was making the Mags for Tanfo, but the 9 and 40 mags have bee a problem since they went to a large frame in '05. Good news is all new Witnesses coming in 9 have the mags now, and they are available directly from EAA

I'd guess a whole new slide and bbl would be a lot more than $150? At that point, I'd jest as soon buy a whole 'nother pistol.

I'm talking about a 9x19 bbl only that would work in the .38 Super slide. Kinda like what ya can do with a Glock ... like with 10mm and .40sw.

.38 Super mags s/b fine. My Colts shoot 9mm from .38 Super mags with zero problems.
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby Seismic Sam on Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:15 am

Given the fact that 9mm ammo will feed fine out of 38 Super mags, so you don't have the problem of having the shorter mag rattling around in the frame, I think it's highly likely that a 9mm barrel might just drop in to a 38 Super.

As you can see from the on-line catalog, all EAA barrels look pretty much the same, and I doubt the lug spacing or anything else except the bore is different. I beleive the Match uses the 4 3/4" barrel, but I'm not sure.

http://www.eaacorp.com/parts-hand-gun-barrels-compensators.html
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby rugersol on Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:38 am

Seismic Sam wrote:Given the fact that 9mm ammo will feed fine out of 38 Super mags, so you don't have the problem of having the shorter mag rattling around in the frame, I think it's highly likely that a 9mm barrel might just drop in to a 38 Super.

As you can see from the on-line catalog, all EAA barrels look pretty much the same, and I doubt the lug spacing or anything else except the bore is different. I beleive the Match uses the 4 3/4" barrel, but I'm not sure.

http://www.eaacorp.com/parts-hand-gun-barrels-compensators.html

That was my read, as well. I was hopin' for something a bit more definitive. :geek:

And I'll take back what I said earlier ... if I was to get one, I'd prefer the Stock II ... at probly $800, if I had a purdy good idea that the "conversion kit" they sell, would "drop-in", at $245 vs. 'nother $800, I 'spose I could do that ... if I thought it'd improve the odds. Then again, upon lookin' 'em over, I'm questioning whether the somewhat "generic" slide they got would match the supposed quality of the Stock II slide ... 'er fit on the frame slide to frame fit, is what I'm talkin' about ... 'er whatever?

Only other thing is, if they use a smaller (muzzle to hammer) grip-frame for the 9x19-length cartridges, than the .45acp-length cartridges. Then a 9x19 "conversion" probly wouldn't line up too well, on a .38 Super. But, if they made it a point to, a 9x19 bbl-only, might! Image

Have ya ever actually tried to stick an EAA 9mm mag in to yer .38 Super? If the grip-frames basically the same size, I'd expect they either got a spacer inside the back of it, or they otherwise cut the mag-well forward a bit.

Then again, it looks like EFK Firedragon's at least entertained the idea of makin' bbl's for 'em ... he'd probly know. At that, may as well get it extended and threaded for a comp.
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby Seismic Sam on Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:59 am

Update: Measured my EAA 38 Super Match, and it DOES take the 4 3/4" barrel.

Just to check it out, I got out my Israeli BUL Cherokee plastic frame gun (which IS a contract manufactured Tanfoglio), yanked out the 3 5/8" barrel, and dropped it into the 38 Super match slide. It fit prefectly. (Except for the length of the barrel, of course.) With this information, I can't imagine that a 4 3/4" EAA 9mm barrel wouldn't drop right in to a 38 Super slide. I beleive the correct spring for a 9mm is a Wolff 15# spring.

I just checked, and the EAA 9mm mags DO NOT fit in the 38 Super frame. Not even close. they are both too short and too narrow. The only way to make that conversion work is to run 9mm ammo in 38 Super mags.
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby rugersol on Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:45 pm

Thanks for checking, Sam! :cheers:

Alright, I've done some light reading ... and I've come up with a fairly definitive answer ... that answer is "NO!" :shock:

What I've read is, at least at one time, EAA was importing two sizes of Tanfoglios ... large (.38 Super, 10mm, .45acp) and small (9mm and .40sw).

What I've also read is, recently, they've only been importing the large. No clue if that means they're otherwise accommodating the smaller magazines to sell 9mm's, or what. Not even sure if any of it's true.

I've also read that more than a few folks have tried to get 9x19 to feed from .38 Super mags ... and very rare exceptions aside, this sounds like a giant cluster-****. There's some guy named Henning that supposedly knows more about these than God, and in looking at his site, you can either buy a .38 Super mag (large, for well over $100/ea) ... or a 9x19 mag (small). I've seen no indication that he sells anything slightly resembling a large magazine which reliably feeds 9x19.

I should also clarify, my own .38 Super magazines that I shoot 9x19 through in my Colts are all single-stack mags. And from the little bit of I've read, it sounds like the double-wide mags, plus the taper of the 9mm case, combines to make some problems ... possibly.

This is not to say that, at some point, Tanfoglio has corrected these issues ... and is currently shipping .38-Super-sized guns which fire 9mm, reliably. Just that, I've seen no indication, that that's the case ... yet ... if ever.

FWIW, I've also read that, in some cases, with the bbl's that EAA sells, some minor fitting may be required.
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby JustinPo on Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:53 pm

Getting back on topic a little bit I think you have a few things you need to decide on that will let you move forward

Firstly you need to decide on caliber. If you want bigger than 9mm 45 makes the most sense, especially if killing paper and steel is the idea. 45 and 9mm are easy to shoot all day, every time I shoot a .40 I want to pat the gun on its head and say “whoa there calm down no need to be jumpy!” And if you reload there is no real downside on the price front to 45.

Second you need to decide on gun type there seem to be three types you seem to be looking at: 1911’s, pure plastic (XD/Glock/M&P,) and others (SIG/HK/CZ.) Decide first what you must have in the gun to help eliminate some of these. I have tried to put together a pro con list of the different types:

1911 Pros: excellent trigger, excellent accuracy, weight makes for good manageability
1911 Cons: single stack magazine capacity (7/8 flush or 10 extended,) higher prices, some reliability issues when new

Plastic Pros: good price to performance ratio, high magazine capacity, easy to operate
Plastic Pros: Less accurate than the others but still fine, far worse trigger than a 1911

Other Pros: high mag capacities, accurate
Other Cons: Some are expensive, trigger is not up to par of a high end 1911 but is still good, on some controls are complicated

Of course there are exceptions the XDm series is a perfect one as they offer a good price (especially seeing all the extras you get with one,) decent trigger (not high end 1911 good but decent,) very high mag capacity, excellent accuracy, and are proving very reliable.

Now once you have it nailed down to a type go wild looking at all the different models and options and such, then ask to go shooting with those that have them or go to bills and rent (rental costs go towards retail purchase I believe)
Good Luck!

Disclaimer: Above poster was influenced by learning to shoot pistols with old school 1911’s, bought and loves an HK USP 45 full size, and thinks XDs are in every way superior to Glocks.
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby TH3180 on Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:26 pm

I see your guys point about sticking with 9mm. I have been thinking about it. I still am not sure what I'm going to do. Thank you for all the advice, keep it coming.

JJH wrote:CZ75b 40S&W?

That would be on top of my list.

Well this has now been added to the list. I swung through the gun stop and fondled a CZ75b in 9mm. That was all shiney, which isn't my cup of tea but now I know what the feel like.
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby JJ on Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:55 am

TH3180 wrote:Well this has now been added to the list. I swung through the gun stop and fondled a CZ75b in 9mm. That was all shiney, which isn't my cup of tea but now I know what the feel like.



They do make them that aren't shiny and nickle. And if you shop around you can find a CZ75b Cold War Commemorative at a pretty good price. I doubt they will ever be collector grade, but had an uber cool factor about them.

one in MN http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=216638133

A pretty decent price http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=217038525
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby TH3180 on Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:19 am

JJH wrote:
TH3180 wrote:Well this has now been added to the list. I swung through the gun stop and fondled a CZ75b in 9mm. That was all shiney, which isn't my cup of tea but now I know what the feel like.



They do make them that aren't shiny and nickle. And if you shop around you can find a CZ75b Cold War Commemorative at a pretty good price. I doubt they will ever be collector grade, but had an uber cool factor about them.

one in MN http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=216638133

A pretty decent price http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=217038525

Yeah I'm not looking for a collector gun. I want something to shoot. I am thinking about the CZ75bd. With the decocker I can shot in production class from my understanding. With the CZ75b there isn't a way to decock it with one in the pipe right? This is all new to me my G17 doesn't have a hammer.

A buddy is on his way to pick me up. We are going to the gun show. I don't plan on buying anything today, but I hope to trim the list down some.
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Re: Now I need to pick one off the list.

Postby JJ on Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:31 am

JJH wrote: And if you shop around you can find a CZ75b Cold War Commemorative at a pretty good price. I doubt they will ever be collector grade, but had an uber cool factor about them.



I just mentioned the Commemorative becuase New prices are the same as the normal CZ75b. I seem to remember they can be had even cheaper than a regular 75.

TH3180 wrote:Yeah I'm not looking for a collector gun. I want something to shoot. I am thinking about the CZ75bd. With the decocker I can shot in production class from my understanding. With the CZ75b there isn't a way to decock it with one in the pipe right? This is all new to me my G17 doesn't have a hammer.

A buddy is on his way to pick me up. We are going to the gun show. I don't plan on buying anything today, but I hope to trim the list down some.


You can de-cock and hammered gun with one in the pipe. Hold the hammer with your thumb, pull the trigger, and lower the hammer. De-cockers are for the people that are to inept to tie their shoes, and for Liberals to feel safer, kinda like TSA body scans.

I don't shoot USPSA, but in IDPA, you can shoot either SSP, or ESP with the 75. SSP=hammer down safety off at start. ESP=Cocked a Locked safety on.

Another option would be a EAA Witness Classic (not II). They are the small frame Witness, you can apply the safety hammer up or down, and are cheaper than a 75, and IMO just as good if not better built than a 75. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=217083183. I am pretty close to buying one myself right now.
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