Rifle primers in .44 mag?

[Rodentman]

I was at the BPR Saturday and I saw a fellow shooting a 10.5" bbl SBH. Seemed to be pretty serious and shooting very accurately. I noticed his box of reloads had a hand written label stating the load (H110, 250g bullet), and large RIFLE primers. the word "rifle" was in all caps and underlined. Why would someone use these instead of LP Mag primers? I thought rifle primers were a different diameter, or thickness and were not interchangeable with pistol primers. Is there a different brass that uses rifle primers? I wasn't able to ask the chap due to all the racket in the range.

[Seismic Sam]

Definitely a NO-NO!! I have no idea why you would want or need to use large rifle primers in a 44 mag, and there are some potentially serious problems, although they are minimized somewhat by shooting the ammo in a revolver rather than an autoloader. (And there are Desert Eagles in 44 mag....)

To begin with you don't need to do this. Case in point, 1911fan's 44 mag ammo for his Ruger Super Blackhawk (HOT!!! HOT!!! HOT!!!) and the low serial number Smith 29 he USED to have that he loaded at a lower level. 1911fan's son went out one day with the Model 29, and took the Ruger Super Blackhawk loads by mistake, and the Model 29 came home in pieces (literally!! ) So you don't need rifle primers to load 44 magnum loads that will blow up a Smith 29....

There is only ONE pistol cartridge that is set up to use rifle primers, and it's the Smith 500. Originally, brass came out that was designed for both large magum pistol primers and large rifle primers, and to this day the brass that was designed for the rifle primers has the letter "R" on the headstamp. These days, I think all 500 Smith brass is designed for rifle primers, but I'm not 100% certain about this. The BIG problem here is that rifle primers are LONGER (front to back) than LMP primers, so if you seat a rifle primer in a case designed for a magum pistol primer, the back of the primer will be extending back beyound the end of the case. That means that there is the slight chance that if you do this with a hard recoiling gun like a 44 mag or a REALLY hard recoiling gun like the Smith 500, the other rounds in the cylinder could fire when you pull the trigger. NOT GOOD!!!

The solution for the Smith 500 is to get a rifle primer pocket reamer from John-Boy if you're shooting Smith 500 LMP primer brass, and ream out the primer pocket to the rifle depth. For 44 mag, this is totally not necessary and nobody does it. so I suspect the guy you ran into was one of "THOSE" people that took some stupid pills before he boldy went where no idiot had gone before.

[Pinnacle]

Yeah what sam said

[farmerj]

Pretty sure the 454 casull was built w/ a rifle primer as well.

[Seismic Sam]

Actually, the 454 Casull is a bit of a surprise: While the 45 Long Colt uses large pistol primers, the 454 Casull uses SMALL rifle primers. None of the manuals I have shed any light on the seeming lack of logic in choosing a small rifle primer instead of a large rifle primer.

[dleong]

I was at the BPR Saturday and I saw a fellow shooting a 10.5" bbl SBH. Seemed to be pretty serious and shooting very accurately. I noticed his box of reloads had a hand written label stating the load (H110, 250g bullet), and large RIFLE primers. the word "rifle" was in all caps and underlined. Why would someone use these instead of LP Mag primers? I thought rifle primers were a different diameter, or thickness and were not interchangeable with pistol primers. Is there a different brass that uses rifle primers? I wasn't able to ask the chap due to all the racket in the range.

It was indeed busy last Saturday at the BPR, but definitely not raucous enough to preclude conversation (although some shouting might have been necessary to be heard! ).

As for the reason for my using LRPs in my .44 Mag handloads, I've ascertained through extensive testing that they yield slightly more consistent velocities with my full house loads using H110/W296 powder. For the same charge, the average velocites vis-a-vis magnum LPPs are almost identical, but the standard deviations are noticeably less with the LRPs. The catch here is that the LRPs are slightly thicker than the magnum LPPs (0.125" vs. 0.119") and I only use them in .44 Mag R-P brass which, for whatever reason, seem to have marginally deeper primer pockets that allow the LRPs to seat slightly under flush without being forced in. With other brands of .44 Mag brass, I use the regular magnum LPPs.

And, as you noticed on Saturday, I have no problems in the accuracy department with my .44 Mag handloads at 25 yards.

[dleong]

Definitely a NO-NO!! I have no idea why you would want or need to use large rifle primers in a 44 mag, and there are some potentially serious problems, although they are minimized somewhat by shooting the ammo in a revolver rather than an autoloader. (And there are Desert Eagles in 44 mag....)

To begin with you don't need to do this. Case in point, 1911fan's 44 mag ammo for his Ruger Super Blackhawk (HOT!!! HOT!!! HOT!!!) and the low serial number Smith 29 he USED to have that he loaded at a lower level. 1911fan's son went out one day with the Model 29, and took the Ruger Super Blackhawk loads by mistake, and the Model 29 came home in pieces (literally!! ) So you don't need rifle primers to load 44 magnum loads that will blow up a Smith 29....

There is only ONE pistol cartridge that is set up to use rifle primers, and it's the Smith 500. Originally, brass came out that was designed for both large magum pistol primers and large rifle primers, and to this day the brass that was designed for the rifle primers has the letter "R" on the headstamp. These days, I think all 500 Smith brass is designed for rifle primers, but I'm not 100% certain about this. The BIG problem here is that rifle primers are LONGER (front to back) than LMP primers, so if you seat a rifle primer in a case designed for a magum pistol primer, the back of the primer will be extending back beyound the end of the case. That means that there is the slight chance that if you do this with a hard recoiling gun like a 44 mag or a REALLY hard recoiling gun like the Smith 500, the other rounds in the cylinder could fire when you pull the trigger. NOT GOOD!!!

The solution for the Smith 500 is to get a rifle primer pocket reamer from John-Boy if you're shooting Smith 500 LMP primer brass, and ream out the primer pocket to the rifle depth. For 44 mag, this is totally not necessary and nobody does it. so I suspect the guy you ran into was one of "THOSE" people that took some stupid pills before he boldy went where no idiot had gone before.

I'd be wary of taking advice from buffoonish, self-proclaimed "experts" who claim never to have come across brass-colored primers in nearly 40 years, and who don't know that the .454 Casull cartridge utilizes a rifle primer.

Here, have some of your stupid pills back.

[DeanC]

[farmerj]

+100

[Heffay]

I can't believe you're going to let him get away with a comment like that.

[mmcnx2]

When I had my open gun built the smith provided load data and recommended small rifle primers for my super 38, he also tuned a para for steel and indicated that in those powder puff 40 loads SRP's would be fine. I've used small rifle in both for over 5 years, no signs of pressure, very accurate, very consistent chrono speeds and 100% reliablity.

[Shipyard]

+100

hmmmmm.... bad taste allready? too bad i missed it, it must've been juicy. deaner, i thought better of you my friend

[Seismic Sam]

When I had my open gun built the smith provided load data and recommended small rifle primers for my super 38, he also tuned a para for steel and indicated that in those powder puff 40 loads SRP's would be fine. I've used small rifle in both for over 5 years, no signs of pressure, very accurate, very consistent chrono speeds and 100% reliablity.

This is a special case, no pun intended. 9x23 Winchester loads are designed for small rifle primers and run at 52,000 PSI, and while 9x23 Supercomp brass has about 20% less brass in the case by weight, you can probably get away with the same thing. The issue here that I brought up here was NOT pressure (never even mentioned it) but having a high primer in a pistol case, which is pretty much a universally condemned no-no by every reloading manual out there, could conceivably get you a round fire out of battery with an autoloader or a full cylinder fire in a revolver. Somebody at the Gopher on Saturday brought in a 45 ACP case with the head pretty much blown clean off because the disconnector was too short, and the only damage to this revoltingly lucky individual was a blown grip panel. SAAMI pressure for a 45 ACP is 21,000 PSI. Good luck on getting by with a round running at 2 1/2 times that pressure with a high primer.

[mmcnx2]

When I had my open gun built the smith provided load data and recommended small rifle primers for my super 38, he also tuned a para for steel and indicated that in those powder puff 40 loads SRP's would be fine. I've used small rifle in both for over 5 years, no signs of pressure, very accurate, very consistent chrono speeds and 100% reliablity.

This is a special case, no pun intended. 9x23 Winchester loads are designed for small rifle primers and run at 52,000 PSI, and while 9x23 Supercomp brass has about 20% less brass in the case by weight, you can probably get away with the same thing. The issue here that I brought up here was NOT pressure (never even mentioned it) but having a high primer in a pistol case, which is pretty much a universally condemned no-no by every reloading manual out there, could conceivably get you a round fire out of battery with an autoloader or a full cylinder fire in a revolver. Somebody at the Gopher on Saturday brought in a 45 ACP case with the head pretty much blown clean off because the disconnector was too short, and the only damage to this revoltingly lucky individual was a blown grip panel. SAAMI pressure for a 45 ACP is 21,000 PSI. Good luck on getting by with a round running at 2 1/2 times that pressure with a high primer.

45 ACP? I never said anything about 45, I was also not endorsing anything other than outlining the speific uses that my gun smith provided. It was more a statement about small rifle seeming to be used in pistols.

[farmerj]

but did you read it in one of the many 3" thick reloading manuals that you have around the bench?