Reloading .223 1 in 9" twist- I'm getting twisted

[45Badger]

I've got a 700P in .223. It has a 26", 1/9" barrel. I have worked up a 60 gr load that shoots about .5" at 100 yards. I have been trying to find a decent load for Sierra 69gr matchkings. Best I can do is about an inch at 100 yards. I want to shoot this rifle out to 300 yards or so (400? ). I have heard that the heavier boattail bullets will stabiize better on longer shots, so I'd like my 69 grain pills to be better at 100 yards. Questions for the gang-

Is it true the heavier bullets will do better at longer ranges?

What the heck can I do to get a better load? I've tried 4895 and win 748. Just bought some Varget to see if a powder change helps.........

[EJSG19]

what are you doing to your brass cases before loading?

[crbutler]

If you are getting .5 groups at distance with the 60, I doubt it's your reloading practices.

You can try playing around with it some, but likely your barrel wants a faster twist with the 69 gr Match King bullet.

I know that usually the BC gets better with heavier bullets, so they retain velocity better and that helps with your long range shooting, but personally I didn't find that much difference between the 55 and the 69's in effect on varmints, so I kept with the 55 grainers. I think if the 60's are shooting .5, then I would just chalk it up to your barrel not caring for heavier bullets, and stick with the lighter ones.

[mmcnx2]

I run the 77gr matchkings out of a 7.7 twist and get a ragged hole at 100 yards. I'm guessing the twist rate might be a little low for the 69. When I had my Kreiger barrel made he told me 9 was good upto about 60 and 8 would handle about 70. He makes the 7.7 specifically for the 77's. Although the Sierra web site says you should be able to run the 69 down to a 10 twist

I run Varget powder and it has been great. Excellent chrono and accuracy.

Have you measured your free bore and adjusted your OAL. The matchkings have a tendancy to require a longer OAL due to the bullet shape otherwise you can get .020, which can impact accuracy. I load these as long as I can get in my magpul mag's. I have also tried loading longer dropping free bore to the magical .010 folks talk about, they don't fit in the mags but they do tighten up the groups very slightly, just like kreiger said they would.

[usnret]

I have a couple of rifles that shoot a flat base bullet better than a boattail bullet. Also try some Accurate Arms 2015 powder. You could also try the 75 grain Hornaday A-Max bullet too for long range work.

[mrokern]

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But seriously, that's pushing the upper range for 1:9. Upper 60s are that grey zone...some 1:9 may be able to stabilize them, some may not.

[Rip Van Winkle]

Some thoughts.

1) A nine twist barrel should be plenty to stabilize a 68 - 69gr bullet.

2) The most popular power for the heavier bullets in 223 is Varget, followed closely by Reloader 15. According to the President of the MRRA, the most accurate powder for 77 and 80gr SMK's hands down is VV135. (YMMV)

3) If It were me, I would shoot both bullets at 300 and see which shoots better. As mentioned earlier, the heavier bullet will have a higher BC and less drift in the wind. If you watch the wind, you might not see much difference.

ETA: Most bench rest shooters use flat base bullets for better accuracy.

[45Badger]

Some thoughts.

1) A nine twist barrel should be plenty to stabilize a 68 - 69gr bullet.

2) The most popular power for the heavier bullets in 223 is Varget, followed closely by Reloader 15. According to the President of the MRRA, the most accurate powder for 77 and 80gr SMK's hands down is VV135. (YMMV)

3) If It were me, I would shoot both bullets at 300 and see which shoots better. As mentioned earlier, the heavier bullet will have a higher BC and less drift in the wind. If you watch the wind, you might not see much difference.

ETA: Most bench rest shooters use flat base bullets for better accuracy.

Does range have any effect on when it stabilizes? Is 100 yards possibly too short a range, and I could see improvement at 200-300?

[usnret]

coughcough1:7coughcough



But seriously, that's pushing the upper range for 1:9. Upper 60s are that grey zone...some 1:9 may be able to stabilize them, some may not.

This is from Remington:
The foundation of the Model 700 action is its unique bolt design. The bolt face, barrel, and receiver surround and support the cartridge head with three overlapping rings of solid steel. The Model 700 receiver is machined from a solid block of ordnance-grade steel, then drilled and tapped for scope mounts. All of our standard Model 700 Police rifles have heavy, free-floating 26" barrels crowned at the muzzle for unparalleled accuracy and stability. The Model 700P LTR features a fluted 20" barrel and is 1 1/2lbs. lighter than the standard 26" version. In the .223 Remington chambering, the twist has been changed from 1 in 12" to 1 in 9" in order to maximize the ballistic stability of heavier bullets. Model 700s chambered for the .223 Remington have five-shot capacities and hinged floor plates. Guns in .308 Win. and .300 Win. Mag. calibers are now equipped with a quick-change, four shot detachable magazine.

[45Badger]

coughcough1:7coughcough



But seriously, that's pushing the upper range for 1:9. Upper 60s are that grey zone...some 1:9 may be able to stabilize them, some may not.

This is from Remington:
The foundation of the Model 700 action is its unique bolt design. The bolt face, barrel, and receiver surround and support the cartridge head with three overlapping rings of solid steel. The Model 700 receiver is machined from a solid block of ordnance-grade steel, then drilled and tapped for scope mounts. All of our standard Model 700 Police rifles have heavy, free-floating 26" barrels crowned at the muzzle for unparalleled accuracy and stability. The Model 700P LTR features a fluted 20" barrel and is 1 1/2lbs. lighter than the standard 26" version. In the .223 Remington chambering, the twist has been changed from 1 in 12" to 1 in 9" in order to maximize the ballistic stability of heavier bullets. Model 700s chambered for the .223 Remington have five-shot capacities and hinged floor plates. Guns in .308 Win. and .300 Win. Mag. calibers are now equipped with a quick-change, four shot detachable magazine.

This kills me. I had a 1/12 twist SPS Varmint that shot gnat's asses at 200 yards with factory ammo. Snagged this 700P in mint condition with a a leupy mark 4 (3.5-10x40, 30mm, M1 knobs) scope and M4 base and rings for basically the price of the scope. Sold the SPS before I shot this to cover the cost. The 700P is a great gun, but the SPS was amazing. Live and learn.

[mrokern]

coughcough1:7coughcough



But seriously, that's pushing the upper range for 1:9. Upper 60s are that grey zone...some 1:9 may be able to stabilize them, some may not.

This is from Remington:
The foundation of the Model 700 action is its unique bolt design. The bolt face, barrel, and receiver surround and support the cartridge head with three overlapping rings of solid steel. The Model 700 receiver is machined from a solid block of ordnance-grade steel, then drilled and tapped for scope mounts. All of our standard Model 700 Police rifles have heavy, free-floating 26" barrels crowned at the muzzle for unparalleled accuracy and stability. The Model 700P LTR features a fluted 20" barrel and is 1 1/2lbs. lighter than the standard 26" version. In the .223 Remington chambering, the twist has been changed from 1 in 12" to 1 in 9" in order to maximize the ballistic stability of heavier bullets. Model 700s chambered for the .223 Remington have five-shot capacities and hinged floor plates. Guns in .308 Win. and .300 Win. Mag. calibers are now equipped with a quick-change, four shot detachable magazine.

Define heavier. Therein lies the catch. 65gr, sure. 70s? No. 69? Maybe.

[usnret]

That barrel is good for the 69gr and more than likely the 75 gr A-Max. I have a Savage FP that has no problem with either and it has a 1 in 12 twist.

[Norsesmithy]

coughcough1:7coughcough



But seriously, that's pushing the upper range for 1:9. Upper 60s are that grey zone...some 1:9 may be able to stabilize them, some may not.

This is from Remington:
The foundation of the Model 700 action is its unique bolt design. The bolt face, barrel, and receiver surround and support the cartridge head with three overlapping rings of solid steel. The Model 700 receiver is machined from a solid block of ordnance-grade steel, then drilled and tapped for scope mounts. All of our standard Model 700 Police rifles have heavy, free-floating 26" barrels crowned at the muzzle for unparalleled accuracy and stability. The Model 700P LTR features a fluted 20" barrel and is 1 1/2lbs. lighter than the standard 26" version. In the .223 Remington chambering, the twist has been changed from 1 in 12" to 1 in 9" in order to maximize the ballistic stability of heavier bullets. Model 700s chambered for the .223 Remington have five-shot capacities and hinged floor plates. Guns in .308 Win. and .300 Win. Mag. calibers are now equipped with a quick-change, four shot detachable magazine.

Define heavier. Therein lies the catch. 65gr, sure. 70s? No. 69? Maybe.

A true 1 in 9 is supposed to be the sweet spot for 69 grain, supposed to be a Maybe for 75-77 grain (My 1 in 9 twist Wilson barreled AR-15 will shoot 77 on days warmer than 60 degrees at any barometric pressure I've yet encountered or on days as cold as 30 degrees with a barometric pressure of less than 29.80 inches of mercury, but if it's cold with higher pressure than that [not that 29.80 is a precise limit, the next lowest recorded pressure in the 30-60 degree range in my log book while firing 77 grain bullets out of that rifle is 29.86], it sometimes will keyhole), and supposed to be a definite "No" for 80 grain and larger (which require 1 in 8 or 1 in 7.7).

1 in 7 twist was adopted mostly for the M856 Tracer, which is really long, and has a light rear end due to the priming cup, making it extra hard to stabilize, though the one winter night I burned up the last of mine in my 1 in 9, it seemed to work just fine.

If 45Badger's rifle is actually 1 in 9, it should have no problem stabilizing a 69 grain SMK under any circumstances, unless it's got damage somewhere.

[45Badger]

So, I found a little bit of Easter inspiration today and it paid off big time. I loaded up some 55gr VMax's and headed out to my newest new gun club- Minnetonka Sportsmen. Turns out that a 55gr VMax over 25 grains of 748,with a COL of 2.250 shoots one silly hole at 100 yards .

Happy Easter everybody!

[BBeckwith]

So, I found a little bit of Easter inspiration today and it paid off big time. I loaded up some 55gr VMax's and headed out to my newest new gun club- Minnetonka Sportsmen. Turns out that a 55gr VMax over 25 grains of 748,with a COL of 2.250 shoots one silly hole at 100 yards .

Happy Easter everybody!

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