Ignorant Reloader Questions

[Scott Notaeh]

I have not read a half dozen 2" thick reloading books yet but I have some questions about things suggested in the couple books I did read.

Books say to sort brass by head stamp and lot if possible. They say this is because volume, thickness, and dimensions are different. I get that; but, what am I doing differently with them? Do you develop different loads for each one or just keep them separate because they will group more closely to one another? So far, I plan to do this as it gives me a chance to inspect things and find berdan primed stuff. Do you sort your pistol brass by head stamp?

Book says to measure case wall thickness on rifle cases down near the web. Do folks do this?

What about flash hole deburring for rifle stuff?

Neck turning?

Case runout / indexing?

[solidgun]

If you are shooting a lot in one sitting and using the same batch and brand ammo, just empty the brass catcher in batches and put them into bags right there and write the batch number from the box onto the bags. This will save you a lot more time than hand sorting.
If you are shooting small quantities (like precision rifle shooting), the head stamp play would be more advantageous, but I would bring the bags of previously collected batches for easy sorting.


I am sure more advanced reloaders can answer your other questions.

[Stradawhovious]

Just how far down the rabbit hole do you want to go? Are you making rounds for. 1,000 yard competition gun, or blasting ammo for family fun range day?

I sort my rifle brass for reasons of consistency between cartridges.

I have never bothered sorting my .45 brass......... I just throw it all in a bucket, and re-use it till it splits.

There are people that will weigh each piece of brass, and each bullet individually to ensure exacting standards.

its all in the use.

As for the more involved processes of runout, neck turning and the like, k will let the more serious, more experienced folks address that. Yes people do it, yes it makes a difference.

Personally, I don't have the shooting skill or trigger control (or hot rod firearm) for any of the advanced stuff to make much of a difference for me.

[gyrfalcon]

...I get that; but, what am I doing differently with them?

What you do differently will vary depending up on the differences in the brass. If Lake City and a Federal Cartridge casings are identical from a dimensional and manufacturing standpoint you really don't have to do anything differently with them.

Do you develop different loads for each one or just keep them separate because they will group more closely to one another?

I think the idea is to decrease the number of variables you're working with. If you have 20 types of brass you're reloading that was shot in 30 different firearms you have a lot of different variables to account for.

Do you sort your pistol brass by head stamp?
Do folks do this?
What about flash hole deburring for rifle stuff?
Neck turning?
Case runout / indexing?

Sometimes, yes, yes depending on the brass 3x.

[Seismic Sam]

Sorting by lot is impossible unless you buy it fresh from John-Boy and can see the lot number on the case of new brass. I personally think sorting by headstamp is valuable, as the last time I loaded up some 9mm blasting brass with the leftover junk headstamps that I don't want, I ran into absolutely tremendous case mouth thickness variations, going all the way from almost to tight to seat the bullet to so loosey goosey the bullet almost slid into the case by itself. I was not happy with the way that loading session went, and I made sure that I crimped the snot out of the bullet to make sure a bullet didn't back into the case and cause a kaboom.

I only keep Winchester, Federal, R-P, and PMC headstamps in 9mm. In 45 I keep Winchester, R-P, Federal, and WCC (Western Cartridge corporation (Military 45 ammo)). There are two reasons I keep these: First, these are well known AMERICAN companies that have been around forever (except for PMC) and secondly, the majority of the brass you will find will be one of these popular headstamps so you can load up a full box of one headstamp.

As far as having to redo your loads for different headstamps, unless you're loading right up to the max with a +P load, it's NOT a problem and don't worry about it. If you are loading up to the max, then you MUST have a chrono so you can see where your velocities are going. You won't bee there for quite a while.

For rifle cases, there are not as many lying around, so the chances of getting a full box of 50 of one headstamp are practically nil, unless you come to OGC right after the local SWAT team has just shot up a couple of thousand rounds of .223 right before you got there. (Very rare occurrence.) You're FAR better of to just buy a few hundred new cases from John-Boy and leave it at that. The inside of new cases have to be chamfered, but that's all you really need to do. As far as runout and neck turning, that is advanced stuff that you won't be getting to for some time unless you get into benchrest competition. Some of this is also a function of the rifle, and I have a Colt 1975 AR-15 that shoots okay, but it's a Vietnam era gun and back then AR-15's were NOT designed to be super accurate. I have an Armalite AR-10 flat-top that JP worked over for me, and I expect a LOT more out of that gun. Only shoot one lot of brass that I bought new, but I don't bother with neck turning or runout because it is still a semi-auto.

The only gun I go the whole 9 yards with is my Remington 700 Sendero SF in .338 Ultramag that's a full JP custom job, and that thing, if handled properly, can make hits on targets at 1200 yards or more.

Hope that answers your questions.

[IKMTU]

Sorting of rifle brass is important, very important. You must pay attention to the brand of brass that is used by reloading manual you use. Cases bigger then 223 will have large measureable difference is internal capacity, translated what works in Winchester breass might very wll be bad in Federal Brass. What load is worked up in one head stamp is simply not safe in another head stamp. Then you must keep track of how many times the brass has been fired. People who reload for bolt guns, can use neck sizing instead full length sizing to help with decreasing the over working of the brass. All, other brass including brass new to your gun must be full length reszied. NEVER EVER pick up rifle brass at the range that you did not fire, or that you watch be fired straight from the new box. Why you ask? Because you do not know how the brass was treated, whether it was on XX # load or if it was brand new. The exception is that a person can detect whether a primer pock crimp is still intact and so they you can fairly sure of it being once fired, as there is no way for a reloader to replicated a primer pocket crimp without arsenal equipment. There was a "staking" type of tool around to it int he past.

Basic rule of thumb with brass for any rifle except bolt gun is that it gets fired 6 times and put in scrap bucket.

Bolt gun brass needs to be kept with the gun, as it is fireformed to that chamber and if neck sized can last quite a long time. A person will have to full length size the brass every 4 or so loads to bump the shoulder back enough to allow for reliable chambering. Keeping notes on the brass in the box is a good idea. If you start getting split necks, loose primer pockets (occurs fast with Federal Rifle Brass more so then other brands), or signs of case head separation the whole lot gets trashed. Not worth the potetial of binding up a gun.

Berdan primed brass is easy to spot look into the case mouth if you see two holes that ie berdan primed brass it goes to the scrap heap!

Basically, handgun brass gets loaded till the case neck splits or a more likely demise, you loose it especiall auto loading calibers. I do not separate 9MM brass at all, I do separate revolver brass for a couple of different reasons. On the 627 when using moon clips the gun functions best with Starline brass, and so it is a requirment for that reason related to the moonclip mfgr. For the other 357's I just sort by head stamp to keep production batches the same, pesonal quirk. For the 625 I keep my brass separate for the same reason as the 627, as auto loaders beat up brass upon extraction. So, i keep WW and FED brass for 625 use. The rest goes for autoloader use in the 220 and 1911.

If I a had TC Encores/Contenders or Rem XP100 firing a bottle neck round of course that brass would be treated as rifle brass.

A good hint for reloading rifle ammo. When seating bullet rasie the ram just enough to engage the bullet into the case mouth to start it. Then, lower the ram and rotate the case 180 degrees. This will help with loaded ammo run out.

My suggestion is for you get your feet wet then worry about ironong out all the little kinks, or variables like run out etc. If you worry about to many things it will make it hard to fix what does not work. I can not help but state the obvious....KEEP THIS SIMPLE. Some will try to baffle you with a bunch of useless to the new reloader bull crap! Be Safe and most of all Have Fun!

[farmerj]

Most of what I have to offer is considered crap since I got it off the internet or books I bought at a yardsale or library sale. Nor have I read a 2 or 3" manual from cover to cover.

I worry about flash hole deburring the first time I trim brass only to make it all consistent. I try to keep rifle brass to the same gun and if it's new to me, it gets treated as new brass and full length sized and fired as twice.

In the auto guns, it gets fired 6 times and pitched.

In the bolts, after 6 times, a pick goes down inside and I feel for case head separation. I try not to go past 8 loadings only because I just don't want the hassle with it. After 3 loads that are neck sized, they are full length sized.

Pistol, I try to avoid S&B for reloading. I just don't like the primers on them.

NATO brass gets separated out and loaded separately. Doesn't matter if it's pistol or rifle.

on the progressive press, every 25 loads or so gets pulled to be measured. It's hole is left open in the box so I know where it came from. If there's an issue, I know where to pull things apart from. If not, I just back fill them and go on my way.

[gyrfalcon]

Pistol, I try to avoid S&B for reloading. I just don't like the primers on them.
NATO brass gets separated out and loaded separately. Doesn't matter if it's pistol or rifle.

S&B crimps a lot of primers and they also coat them for moisture if you're using the police line. They reload fine for me if you swage the primer pocket.

[Seismic Sam]

FWIW, got to meet Scott at the OCB Saturday breakfast. Very nice youmg man, talked as intelligently in person as he does in his posts. He genuinely wants to learn, rather than breaking a new speed record in going from purchase of a press to finished rounds.

[Scott Notaeh]

Guess I should give an update. Loaded up 50 rounds of 125gr lead 9 cone bullets into WIN brass with CCI 500 small pistol primers. Had an issue with the lee bullet seating die where the ID of the die was smaller than the bullet and the bullet would get stuck in the die and I scrapped out some stuff trying to get it to work. I backed it way off and moved the plunger way down and got it to work but knew that something was not quite right. I ran around a dozen each of 3.5, 3.6, 3.7, and 3.8 grains of tightgroup. Loaded to 1.160 long and used the FCD. Shot them in my Kahr CW9 and all seemed fine with no brass issues or tumbling bullets. Accuracy seemed fine. Some of the brass at 3.5 and a couple at 3.6 were dirty on the outside so I figure I am on the low end of pressure but I didn't seem to see too much difference between them.

Ran another 150 at 3.7 grains titegroup. Shot these through the Kahr at a pistol league and kept the mosquitos away with the cloud of smoke so they are a bit smoky. Also see some of what I think is leading of the barrel on the exit end - had a couple folks at the league confirm this. I suspect I may have too much crimp on the FCD so the next trial might be to see if I can get away without using it at all or backing it way off. If that does not do it, next step might be to try a different powder.

Engineerdan checked his Lee bullet seating die for me and found that his was .004 larger than the bullet and the bullet drops through the die where mine is way smaller than the bullet so there was an issue with my lee die. I sent it back for them to fix. They called me wanting money and I refused but they said they will have a tech look at it. So now I am stopped waiting for them. I am not a big Lee fan at the moment.

I have been processing brass and have a few hundred cases ready for powder when I get my die back. Need to find some more 223 brass.

[yuppiejr]

Guess I should give an update. Loaded up 50 rounds of 125gr lead 9 cone bullets into WIN brass with CCI 500 small pistol primers. Had an issue with the lee bullet seating die where the ID of the die was smaller than the bullet and the bullet would get stuck in the die and I scrapped out some stuff trying to get it to work. I backed it way off and moved the plunger way down and got it to work but knew that something was not quite right. I ran around a dozen each of 3.5, 3.6, 3.7, and 3.8 grains of tightgroup. Loaded to 1.160 long and used the FCD. Shot them in my Kahr CW9 and all seemed fine with no brass issues or tumbling bullets. Accuracy seemed fine. Some of the brass at 3.5 and a couple at 3.6 were dirty on the outside so I figure I am on the low end of pressure but I didn't seem to see too much difference between them.

Ran another 150 at 3.7 grains titegroup. Shot these through the Kahr at a pistol league and kept the mosquitos away with the cloud of smoke so they are a bit smoky. Also see some of what I think is leading of the barrel on the exit end - had a couple folks at the league confirm this. I suspect I may have too much crimp on the FCD so the next trial might be to see if I can get away without using it at all or backing it way off. If that does not do it, next step might be to try a different powder.

Engineerdan checked his Lee bullet seating die for me and found that his was .004 larger than the bullet and the bullet drops through the die where mine is way smaller than the bullet so there was an issue with my lee die. I sent it back for them to fix. They called me wanting money and I refused but they said they will have a tech look at it. So now I am stopped waiting for them. I am not a big Lee fan at the moment.

I have been processing brass and have a few hundred cases ready for powder when I get my die back. Need to find some more 223 brass.

Gunstop has bags of 500 once shot .223 for $35 right now which I thought was a fair price, the bag I picked up was 100% Federal/Lake City (90% was LC10, the rest was LC07-09 and FC) which is nice. If you're going down to Gunstop check out the Hornady bulk packed 55 grain softpoint bullets. If you make the trip be sure to ask John about a powder reccomendation for your 9mm loads that's less smokey, I'm sure he'll be able to lead you down the right path.

[JoeH]

Titegroup produces a ton of smoke with lubed plain lead. For 45 ACP I switched to Clays and found it to smoke much less. It's still smokey shooting plain lead, just not as bad.


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[JoeH]

Titegroup produces a ton of smoke with lubed plain lead. For 45 ACP I switched to Clays and found it to smoke much less. It's still smokey shooting plain lead, just not as bad.


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[engnerdan]

Scott,
Give Power Pistol a try or Winchester-231.

If you are loading lead and plan to do it for a while I would get a plain tapper crimp die for your 9mm. The problem with the Lee FCD is that you can adjust the amount of crimp but you really can not adjust the amount it sizes the case in the neck area where your lead bullet has stretched the case an extra .001 or more. That is the part that hurts the lead bullet, you need that extra stretch to allow the bullet to be at the right size.

John at GS has a nice Redding tapper crimp die for about $23. He will also have Power Pistol and W-231. I think the PP is about $18 and the W-231 is like $22.

-Dan