Questions about RL550B

[TH3180]

As some of you know I got a smoking deal on a RL550B at a garage sale on Friday while working up in Duluth. $55 for the press still in the box unopened and a 9mm Caliber Conversion kit. I set the press up Friday night. I decided to run a few rounds and see how it would shake out. Since I have been doing all my reloading on a single stage I would size a bunch of cases, bell a bunch of case, prime a bunch of cases and load. I have about 600 cases primed ready for powder and a bullet. I decided to run 100 through the press that were already primed, I just skipped the first station. That went great after I got my powder amount dialed in.

Saturday morning I decided to run 100 rounds from start to finish. I loaded up the primer tube with 100 Winchester small pistol primers. The hopper with Power Pistol and I grabbed 100 once reloaded Federal brass. I was having a lot of trouble getting the primers to feed from the tube to the part that catches it and slides back under the case to install it. I did some searching on the net and found I had the screws to tight and I adjusted the rod a little. At this point everything is going great and then BANG. WTF I just had a primer go off in station #1. I pulled the case off and there isn’t a dent in it, it looks like it went in straight and right side up. I don’t know how the heck it happened. I didn’t think a primer going off would be that loud and I got the are you alive hauler from the wife up stairs. Do you guys have any ideas why this happened and is this a common thing with a progressive press? I would guess I have loaded 5000 round with a hand primmer and I never had a primmer go off.

When I started reloading I bought a RCBS dies. In the setup instructions for the belling die, it just says to flare out the case just enough to get the bullet started. I have flared to the point that I had to push the bullet to get it to sit in the case. The Dillon instructions show a few pictures and say you want 0.020” size difference from a case that hasn’t been flared. When setting up I got the flare out to 0.018” and decided not to mess with it anymore. The case is way more flared out than I ever did with my single stage press. So was I under flaring all this time or am I flaring it to much now.

All the rounds I have loaded with my single stage press to this point have functioned great. I have always wondered if my crimp is correct. In the instructions from my dies, they say you want the crimp to be 0.005-0.010” smaller then measurement on other parts of the case. What part do I measure from on the case. Right now if I measure the crimp compared to the other end of the case I am at about 0.010” smaller at the crimp. As I move closer to the crimp that number gets smaller. Am I doing this right?

I remember reading not to leave powder in my RCBS powder thrower because it can eat the plastic. I didn’t see anything about that in my Dillon instructions. Right now I am using Power Pistol for 147g and W231 for my 115g. Is it alright to leave either one of these powders in the hopper or should I empty it after every reloading session? Is there anything else you guys suggest I get for my press that doesn’t come in the box.
Any other tips you guys can give me on the 550 and progressive presses in general would be great. I also found if you don’t put the little brass pin back in place after checking a powder charge, the case really gets jacked up when you pull the handle.

Tim

[Seismic Sam]

I'm kind of in a funk today because one of Sasha's clients passed two weeks ago before we got to see her one last time, and she was probably the longest surviving client we had. As such, I don't have much of an appetite, much less the energy to crawl out from under my bridge and have a n00b sammich. Lucky you.

You are belling WAAAYYY too much. 18 mils over baseline resize is ridiculous. You crank in the expander die in 1/16th rotation increments until about 10 mils of the bullet will seat in the case mouth. Then things should run smoothly. Maybe for cast bullets you need a little more so 20 mils of the bullet fits in the case mouth. If you are shaving lead or lube, then you didn't bell quite enough with cast bullets.

For 9mm, crimp of .005" to .010" is also ridiculous. Hell, I only use a .005" - .007" crimp on my Smith 500!!! Two ways to measure, one less accurate and one more accurate. For the less accurate, you measure the case body diameter 1/10th inch down from the case mouth, and then use the sharp tips of the caliper to measure the diameter of the case mouth. This is kind of loosey-goosey unless you know how to hold the caliper tips just right and level on both sides of the case, but it can be done. To get the exact measurement, use your bullet puller to pull one of the bullets (and if you don't have a blue plastic or green plastic RCBS bullet puller for about 12 bucks, then MAJOR shame on you!!!) and then you can measure the depth of the crimping indentation with the tips of the calipers and the indent itself will automatically make the caliper tips go to the right place.

Finally, my reloading spidey sense is tingling immensely, which means that it's 50:1 odds that you did not read every page of a major reloading manual, plus everything in the Dillon box, and in general for a Dillon system you need a mentor to help you set it up correctly. If you had a primer detonate, you did something, VERY, VERY wrong. Get help, or get out...

[TH3180]

I'm kind of in a funk today because one of Sasha's clients passed two weeks ago before we got to see her one last time, and she was probably the longest surviving client we had. As such, I don't have much of an appetite, much less the energy to crawl out from under my bridge and have a n00b sammich. Lucky you.

You are belling WAAAYYY too much. 18 mils over baseline resize is ridiculous. You crank in the expander die in 1/16th rotation increments until about 10 mils of the bullet will seat in the case mouth. Then things should run smoothly. Maybe for cast bullets you need a little more so 20 mils of the bullet fits in the case mouth. If you are shaving lead or lube, then you didn't bell quite enough with cast bullets.

For 9mm, crimp of .005" to .010" is also ridiculous. Hell, I only use a .005" - .007" crimp on my Smith 500!!! Two ways to measure, one less accurate and one more accurate. For the less accurate, you measure the case body diameter 1/10th inch down from the case mouth, and then use the sharp tips of the caliper to measure the diameter of the case mouth. This is kind of loosey-goosey unless you know how to hold the caliper tips just right and level on both sides of the case, but it can be done. To get the exact measurement, use your bullet puller to pull one of the bullets (and if you don't have a blue plastic or green plastic RCBS bullet puller for about 12 bucks, then MAJOR shame on you!!!) and then you can measure the depth of the crimping indentation with the tips of the calipers and the indent itself will automatically make the caliper tips go to the right place.

Finally, my reloading spidey sense is tingling immensely, which means that it's 50:1 odds that you did not read every page of a major reloading manual, plus everything in the Dillon box, and in general for a Dillon system you need a mentor to help you set it up correctly. If you had a primer detonate, you did something, VERY, VERY wrong. Get help, or get out...

Thanks for the tips. When I say 0.020” more on the flare I am talking about diameter not how far the bullet slides into the case. That is how the picture in the Dillon paper work showed it.

Your reloading spidey sense is way off today. I read every page of the Speer manual multiple times before I bought my single stage press last year. I read every page of the two things that came in the Dillon box before I even took the press out of the box. I also read it while setting up the press.

[farmerj]

well there you go.

You only read the Speer manual.

When you gonna get around to reading the Hornady manual. Get with the program man....

[IKMTU]

As, I recall factory new Dillons come set up with large primer tube in the magazine and seating punch is set for large. This could be the source of your priming troubles. Next, off 650's are the Dillons that have history of kaboom with primers not so much is the case with 550's. 650 problems are usually due to ham fisted reloaders. A key guide to using a progressive press is do not force anything back off and see what is binding. With your being new to the machine I would suggest you go back and check to see if you have the small primer equipment installed.

I can picture that if you have the wrong stuff installed that primers may come out sideways etc and allow for ignition with little effort. I have "read" of primers being set off by trying to seat the primer into a case with a crimped primer pocket and extra leverage by the operator. Then get a can of compressed air.
I would suggest that you keep the priming track area clean of debris, like the ash and stray primer anvils that come from the depriming process. Make sure that flapper is operating freely that guides spent primers into the collection container. This debris can bind the movement primer arm. Be vigilant.

The key to belling the case mouth to me is more by eyeballing it then relying on strict number parameters.
Your visual cue should be enough to allow the bullet set on top of the case mouth, without help.

Normal (exceptions being Dillon or Redding Pro Series) dies are not radiused as mouth of the die for overly large case mouth flaring. Crimping is best done as a separate operation, buy a RCBS or Redding Taper Crimp Die. How measure enough "crimp" is easy, measure your loaded ammo at the case mouth should read 0.376 to 0.378". Variance will happen with different brands of brass and different bullets ie cast bullets vs jacketed.

Just remember go slow, if it does not feel right then back up and look to see what is binding.

[Seismic Sam]

Well, obviously my spidey sense has been affected by my grief, and I apologize. Good on you for RTFM and telling me so, and I'll respect that. The prevous post sounds like a good place to start looking for the gremlin.

[TH3180]

As, I recall factory new Dillons come set up with large primer tube in the magazine and seating punch is set for large. This could be the source of your priming troubles. Next, off 650's are the Dillons that have history of kaboom with primers not so much is the case with 550's. 650 problems are usually due to ham fisted reloaders. A key guide to using a progressive press is do not force anything back off and see what is binding. With your being new to the machine I would suggest you go back and check to see if you have the small primer equipment installed.

I can picture that if you have the wrong stuff installed that primers may come out sideways etc and allow for ignition with little effort. I have "read" of primers being set off by trying to seat the primer into a case with a crimped primer pocket and extra leverage by the operator. Then get a can of compressed air.
I would suggest that you keep the priming track area clean of debris, like the ash and stray primer anvils that come from the depriming process. Make sure that flapper is operating freely that guides spent primers into the collection container. This debris can bind the movement primer arm. Be vigilant.

The key to belling the case mouth to me is more by eyeballing it then relying on strict number parameters.
Your visual cue should be enough to allow the bullet set on top of the case mouth, without help.

Normal (exceptions being Dillon or Redding Pro Series) dies are not radiused as mouth of the die for overly large case mouth flaring. Crimping is best done as a separate operation, buy a RCBS or Redding Taper Crimp Die. How measure enough "crimp" is easy, measure your loaded ammo at the case mouth should read 0.376 to 0.378". Variance will happen with different brands of brass and different bullets ie cast bullets vs jacketed.

Just remember go slow, if it does not feel right then back up and look to see what is binding.

It did come with the large primer set up in it I switched over to the small. I will check again when I get home. With the flare I am going to take what Dillon says and throw it out the window. I'm going to go back to how I was doing it on my RCBS. It was working for me why change it. When I get home tonight I will check some cases. If I remember right I was within that range. Thanks for the tips.

[TH3180]

Well, obviously my spidey sense has been affected by my grief, and I apologize. Good on you for RTFM and telling me so, and I'll respect that. The prevous post sounds like a good place to start looking for the gremlin.

No worries we all have an off days every once in a while.

[EJSG19]

as far as the primer system on the 550, mine has been finicky also. Most often its due to things being dirty.

But in your case, as you found out, it can be affected by how the "primer tower" is screwed down to the press flange. I can wiggle mine around quite a little when the screws are just a bit loose, and you can tighten it down maybe 1/16'' back and forth.

The little white spur, which acts as the primer drop tube gate, can get a burr on it or sometimes a primer can get in there cockeyed above the white spur, and then the primers won't drop right until you get in there and take the cockeyed primer out manually.

Sorry for the less than intelligent wording, but you get the point. Long weekend.

[crbutler]

First off, that was a heck of a deal- I never find those kinds...

With the primer detonation, was it the one in the case, or was there another primer that detonated? If you have been having problems with it and smeared a few primers, I could see the compound that collected outside of the primer detonating, or if there was a loose primer that got pinched somewhere, but usually that requires a significant effort to detonate.

Was the case a Berdan primed case or military crimped case? Sometimes a oddball slips in the carefully sorted brass pile.

Do you have your priming set up such that you are giving too much insertion into the case? Ie seating the primer too deeply.

The others have given some other suggestions, but every time I've seen a primer let go in the system, it became immediately obvious what happened when you looked at them.

I have had a primer let go in a dillon 1050 due to the spent primer sticking to the decap pin and then resetting it in the case as it was pulled back and then trying to put a fresh primer in- I could tell that something was wrong by the force being used, but as I was operating the press at speed, it went from This ain't quite.... to Bang in a hurry. It is godawful loud. Just be thankful that it wasn't in the primer magazine tube and you had 100 of them letting go at once...

As to the case belling-

If you are using Dillon dies, they have a crimp die in their set. To make the press work best, they do tend to need more belling than most as you want to be able to get a bullet in enough that it doesn't fall out when you index the press. The only problem with over belling if you are using a crimp die is that you do over work the case neck a bit and don't have the case life you might have otherwise (you will see split case necks), but then again, I never seem to get my auto pistol cases back enough for this to be an issue. If you have it happening and you are concerned, you can anneal them, but usually I just get more range brass for 9mm.

Sam is much more conservative about how he likes his 9mm brass, I've used pretty much any old range brass and not had any real problems except for stuff that has the glock guppy belly on it, and if you roll size that goes away also (but that is a separate item).

In any case, from a basic standpoint, with a progressive loader, there are usually more issues with underbelling than overbelling. If you can get the bullet to sit through indexing, you have enough. If you place the bullet on top after the indexing move and just before seating, then you will be able to get by with even less belling. As long as you are not shaving the bullet base or damaging the case mouth, it will qualify as enough at that point.

Crimping is pretty subjective.

Too much causes bullet damage and loss of accuracy, but until you get there, the more the better.

Sam's first method is how I measure it, but I use a fired case that has been resized as the base measurement, and compare after crimping. Remember that the 9mm is a tapered case, so the base will be wider than the mouth even without crimping.

The guy who made my custom pistols said .005-.008 of taper crimp is good. Remember that the crimp is there to prevent the force of firing and the battering from the slide functioning from shoving the bullet further in the case and causing pressure spikes, so too little can cause more severe problems than too much.

[usnret]

Call Dillon. Their tech support is great and they will help you get it figured out.

[TH3180]

I just spent some time in basement running through some scenarios of what could have happened. Here is what I think may have happened. Resize/de-prime a case, without a new primmer in the primmer cup push the handle forward as if I had a primmer in the primmer cup. I did this on multiple cases, a few times the deal that comes up and pushes the primmer would shave some brass inside the primmer pocket. When this happened the brass would not fall out because it was still connected to the inside of the primmer pocket. The primmer that went off, I took it out of the case. Two out of the three legs are depressed. My memory of what happened right before that primmer went off isn’t there probably because the primmer going off scared the hell out of me. Before the primmer went off I was still having some problems with primers not falling into the cup when I would stroke the press. When that would happen I would feel it when I went to set the primmer. I would look through the case and see there wasn’t a primmer and manually pull the bar back and make sure there was a primmer in the cup and then set it. So I think I tried to prime a case with no primmer, notice the different feel, manually got a primmer in the cup, went to prime the case and bang it went off. After it went off I would visually check the primer cup as it is coming back to the priming position. I will continue to do that from now on.
The primer that went off was in the case. I should have mentioned I was using a Federal case one time reloaded by me with Winchester primers. Thank you everyone for your advice and thoughts on this.
Also I sent Dillon an email already, if I don’t hear back from them I will give them a call.

[IKMTU]

Now you are indicating that you set off a previoulsy primed case by you?? Well, now that clears things. There has to have been a debris in the primer cup that was hard enough to set off the primer.........the seating plug would not set off a primer! You had some kind of very hard debris in the cup.....

[45Badger]

Welcome to drinking the blue Kool-aid

Sounds like you've got it figured out. Drop a line if you need help (I've got a pair of 550s).

[TH3180]

Now you are indicating that you set off a previoulsy primed case by you?? Well, now that clears things. There has to have been a debris in the primer cup that was hard enough to set off the primer.........the seating plug would not set off a primer! You had some kind of very hard debris in the cup.....

It went off while I was priming it, in station #1. As I was pushing on the handle it went bang.

Welcome to drinking the blue Kool-aid

Sounds like you've got it figured out. Drop a line if you need help (I've got a pair of 550s).

Thank you I may do that. I think I have things figured out, time will tell.