*Update* M1A or AR based .308?

[farmerj]

based off what you are saying and possibly wanting to shoot it for competition, get an M1A.

It is listed in the rules for service rifle.
http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/Rulebook.pdf
Page 22.
you have 3 rifles to choose from:
M1 Rifle .30 Cal
M14
AR15/M16

If you shoot NRA high power, the AR10 format isn't even allowed.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/highpower.asp

Rifle: Rifles to be used in High Power Rifle competition must be equipped with metallic sights (Some long range, 1000-yard matches allow the use of "any sights"), should be capable of holding at least 5 rounds of ammunition and should be adapted to rapid reloading. Tournament programs often group competitions into two divisions, Service Rifle and Match Rifle. The rifles currently defined as "Service Rifles" include the M1, M14, M16 and their commercial equivalents. Winchester and Remington have made their Model 70 and Model 40X rifles in "match" versions and custom gunsmiths have made up match rifles on many military and commercial actions. 1903 and 1903-A3 Springfield, 1917 Enfields and pre-war Winchester Model 70 sporters in .30-06 are all equipped with clip slots for rapid reloading. The most suitable rear sights are aperture or "peep" with reliable, repeatable 1/2 minute (or finer) adjustments. Front sights should be of either the post or aperture type.

You would be able to use the AR10 in the F Class matches though.
http://usfclass.com/rules.aspx
But if you are going to shoot F-Class, plan on competing against a bunch of bolt guns that will walk all over that auto-stuffer.

I have a scope mount for my M14 if I ever want to use it. I choose to leave it iron sights though as it's set up currently for service rifle competition.

[yuppiejr]

What are you looking at doing with this thing? Do you want a sniper rifle or a battle rifle? Are you hunting? Doing competitions? killing paper?

I want to turn cover into concealment.
I want a marksman rifle.
I want a battle rifle.
I want something to go to when the AR15 is just a bit too small of a hammer.

I might kill some paper and do some competition things in my quest to reduce the amount of suck in my shooting. A super tactical ultra precision gadget filled swiss army knife is not needed. I am not sure my shooting ability will ever be better than an average quality rifle but accuracy counts. I like things light and simple but they need to do the job. Light enough to be portable but not so light that it kicks like a mule. Some nice iron sights but it might be nice to have the option to add some scope thing in the future just in case. No hunting is expected.

I'd give the nod to the M1a for general parts interchangeability and maturity of the platform, it's got a proven track record as a police and military long arm in various configurations while the AR10 seems to be a consumer oriented platform with proprietary design elements between brands. That's not to say the AR10 style rifles are bad or inferior, I just think based on the merit of practical experience the M1a wins out... I wouldn't kick either out of bed.

Honestly, if I were picking a rifle to supplement an AR carbine and shoot "from concealment" or refine my marksmanship at the range it would probably be a precision, large caliber bolt action rifle with nice optics - not a .308/7.62 NATO battle rifle.

[Snowgun]

What are you looking at doing with this thing? Do you want a sniper rifle or a battle rifle? Are you hunting? Doing competitions? killing paper?

I want to turn cover into concealment.
I want a marksman rifle.
I want a battle rifle.
I want something to go to when the AR15 is just a bit too small of a hammer.

I might kill some paper and do some competition things in my quest to reduce the amount of suck in my shooting. A super tactical ultra precision gadget filled swiss army knife is not needed. I am not sure my shooting ability will ever be better than an average quality rifle but accuracy counts. I like things light and simple but they need to do the job. Light enough to be portable but not so light that it kicks like a mule. Some nice iron sights but it might be nice to have the option to add some scope thing in the future just in case. No hunting is expected.

Tell you what, if you go the rout I went, and then add the extra part of some optics when you want, there you go.

[Norsesmithy]

If NRA highpower is your desire, an M1A is your only choice.

But if you want the rifle for any other reason, an AR pattern .308 is pretty much the only choice, unless you want something else because you want something else.

Get a DPMS/KAC compatable platform (DPMS, Fulton Armory, LMT, GA Precision, Larue, Remington, POF, and Knights Armament Company). This version will have the best aftermarket support and therefor best quality accessories at lower prices.

Armalites are supposed to be rather nice, but they use a different barrel nut, stock, and mag, making it difficult to find parts later if you want to change it's configuration.

I think a piston is silly.

[Countryfried Frank]

HERE'S another option just to confuse things further. Light and quick but not as accurate as others already discussed.

But...

Honestly, if I were picking a rifle to supplement an AR carbine and shoot "from concealment" or refine my marksmanship at the range it would probably be a precision, large caliber bolt action rifle with nice optics - not a .308/7.62 NATO battle rifle.

...I agree.

[old guy]

My DPMS .308 AR is way more accurate than the M1A national match I had 30 years ago and I can't shoot as well now as I did then

John

[Scott Notaeh]

based off what you are saying and possibly wanting to shoot it for competition, get an M1A.

It is listed in the rules for service rifle.
http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/Rulebook.pdf
Page 22.
you have 3 rifles to choose from:
M1 Rifle .30 Cal
M14
AR15/M16

If you shoot NRA high power, the AR10 format isn't even allowed.

Let's say I buy an AR15 in an A2 format so I don't need to use my .308 in high power. Let's not get fixated on the scope part. I don't intend to put a scope on this thing. Only mentioned that it might be nice to be able to do it in the future if I change my mind.

Tell you what, if you go the rout I went, and then add the extra part of some optics when you want, there you go.

What is the big shiny thing hanging off the end? What are you compensating for anyway? (I will have to google it). It actually looks good stock. Did you shoot it stock? Guess the free float and sights are pretty nice.

Honestly, if I were picking a rifle to supplement an AR carbine and shoot "from concealment" or refine my marksmanship at the range it would probably be a precision, large caliber bolt action rifle with nice optics - not a .308/7.62 NATO battle rifle.

Well, great! But I want a .308 battle rifle.

Get a DPMS/KAC compatable platform (DPMS, Fulton Armory, LMT, GA Precision, Larue, Remington, POF, and Knights Armament Company). This version will have the best aftermarket support and therefor best quality accessories at lower prices.

Armalites are supposed to be rather nice, but they use a different barrel nut, stock, and mag, making it difficult to find parts later if you want to change it's configuration.

I think a piston is silly.

Interesting. Will need to keep this in mind. I just liked the Armalite cause it seemed to weigh less than some of the others. I don't want a piston I don't think.

HERE'S another option just to confuse things further. Light and quick but not as accurate as others already discussed.

Accuracy is important.

[hammAR]

This is similar to the locked thread on 1911 vs HK45 and Glock17.....and now adding in Sig, S&W, etc..................

There are purest, practitioners, theorists, amateurs, readers, sponges, parrots, and tons of opinions in between.................
personally, and because of the appeal of CMP/NRA/3Gun competions, I would go with the M1A/M14.
You can make one dance at most any party that a bolt attends ........
especially for the type of shooting and use, as well the ranges/distances that you described per your need list.......
besides, you are an Applesauce Rifleman now, and can see what the trigger puncher can do with an average rifle......

and I will still take a 1911...........

[Scott Notaeh]

My DPMS .308 AR is way more accurate than the M1A national match I had 30 years ago and I can't shoot as well now as I did then

John

I drooled all over an M1A today but this keeps nagging me. This and the comments elsewhere saying the new ones are much worse than the old ones. Makes me think the AR based is the way to go.

[farmerj]

Get a polytech M1A, find a good smith to go over it, unitize the gas block, bed the action and put on a NM sight front and rear. NM .052 rear sight.

It will shoot. And for a lot less than anything sold off the shelf now.

All are three or four shot groups.


Plus, you can easily change the season on the rifle for what you want.


If you want to go try it sometime, pick up some ammo and I will be more than willing to let you try this one out. It prefers the 175/178 gr ammo if you want accurate.

[solidgun]

I have 2 M1As and I really do like them for their capabilities. But I also enjoy the design of AR type 308s as it utilizes same drills I am used to performing on other ARs.

I would say this is entirely personal choice as SHTF choice for many would be other firearms since I wouldn't want to lug around these heavy 308 rifles and ammo.

[Spartan117]

The best all-around .308 semi-auto on the market at the moment is the KAC SR25 EMC. It's usable out to 1000 yds if the shooter is up to it, even with a 16" bbl. It's extremely reliable, and it only weighs 8.2lbs (less than a lot of peoples AR15 setups). It's also $5200. Weight, speed of controls and accuracy are all inherently better in a .308 AR. It does cost more to throw reliable into that mix, but it can be done. A good M1A is probably going to be more reliable than an entry level .308 AR.

[Norsesmithy]

A base M1A is several hundred dollars more than a base AR pattern .308. And it's not a USGI rifle, in terms of reliability.

You can upgrade it with USGI parts, or buy a more expensive M14, but then you're running in the same range as a high quality AR pattern .308, or a base model AR pattern .308 that's been upgraded to perform more reliably.

[Snowgun]

A base M1A is several hundred dollars more than a base AR pattern .308. And it's not a USGI rifle, in terms of reliability.

You can upgrade it with USGI parts, or buy a more expensive M14, but then you're running in the same range as a high quality AR pattern .308, or a base model AR pattern .308 that's been upgraded to perform more reliably.

[farmerj]

A base M1A is several hundred dollars more than a base AR pattern .308. And it's not a USGI rifle, in terms of reliability.

You can upgrade it with USGI parts, or buy a more expensive M14, but then you're running in the same range as a high quality AR pattern .308, or a base model AR pattern .308 that's been upgraded to perform more reliably.

Every base AR I have looked at has been in the $1500-1800 range.

Every Base M1A I have looked at has been in the $1500-1800 range.

I got a Polytech M14 for under $500 and put it together with all NM parts replacing the bolt, barrel and operating rod, unitized the gas cylinder and it was still under $1000.

I guess I would like to see the evidence of that which you claim.