New to reloading - a phased approach?

[yuppiejr]

A few random thoughts to take or leave from someone who knows little about this stuff.

You might consider the Lee pacesetter set that includes the FCD for .223 rather than the deluxe set plus FCD. I read somewhere that for AR use, this was better but read up on it.

This was an interesting head's-up, thanks for sharing!

What I chased down was this explanation:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=978284

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"Pacesetters give you the full length sizing die, a standard seating/criming die and in most calibers, a factory crimp die. There are also limited production pacesetters which are two dies sets with the full length sizer and the standard seater/crimper - these are normally for calibers that a more rare.

Deluxe Rifle dies include a full length sizer, a Collet sizer and a Dead Length bullet seater. There is no provision for crimping a case with this set and therefore are really meant for target / single shots. The idea is to use the full length sizer (which requires lube) to initially size the case, then shoot it. After that, you can use the Collet sizer which requires no lube, but only sizes the neck. The seating die is dead length which means that it makes full contact with the shell holder. This is more accurate because it is the same reference with each case regardless of irregularities in case length. Because they are not crimped, it doesn't make any real difference provided they are not excessive length and need trimming. The bullets stay in the case through neck sizing tension which is about .001 because the die mandrel is roughly .002 less than the diameter of the bullet - there is normally 50% spring back leaving you with the .001.

I know the explanation is probably clear as mud, but I've been using them for years. If you buy a Deluxe set and then a separate factory crimp die, you then have every possible combination of sizing / seating and crimping that you need"
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For my initial application loading for my 16" AR15 carbine you are correct, the Pacesetter would be a better choice and should save me a few bucks, thanks for the head's up!

[yuppiejr]

As I've mentioned, I'm running the same turret kit but just in .38/.357; I think you made a great choice, dollar for dollar.

I've used the auto indexing from the start (but I don't do any rifle ammo). The only defect, in my humble opinion, of the Lee turret auto index is that it fails to auto-advance fully, or at all, if a little square plastic ratchet washer part gets screwed up, which is easy to do, which is why, if it's like my kit, they gave you a couple extra ones. And if you ask Lee to send you more for free they do it. Basically though, if you remember to lift the lever before turning the turret by hand (like when you remove it), you can avoid this issue. There are supposedly people who read the instructions and have never have this problem.

One thing I'd like to upgrade some day is the scale. The Lee Safety Scale is impressive in that it works and it's like $20, but I'd kinda like to go to one of the Ohaus beam scales for a more solid feel, a little faster settling and a higher capacity. If you want to upgrade your scale, keep in mind that (I've read here, maybe you have too) electronic scales are adversely affected by fluorescent lighting.

Mine didn't come with the Safety Prime, so I'd be interested to hear how you like it when you start using it. I'm inserting primers by hand into the Lever Prime thingy on the ram and it works pretty well, except about 1% or 2% of the time when I drop a primer, then there's a several second, or several minute, delay while I look for it (with about 70% success).

And now that you have the Lee manual you'll be able to quote Richard Lee about how vastly superior Lee gear is to everything else ever invented.

Your previous thread had a lot to do with my closer look at the Lee press set so thanks for the head's-up! I think the "modified O" concept where the turret is supported on the outside rather than in the center is a really smart design that nets them a lot of strength with less material and lets them keep the costs down. Lee does have a high opinion of his products but what company president does not? I think there's something to be said for value engineering to hit an "everyman" pricepoint that appeals to my Wisconsin roots.

I agree the scale seems a bit spartan, the 100 grain max capacity will not allow measuring completed cartridges or even bullets for my pistols but should be adequate starting out. I've thought about an electronic jewler's scale linked by Sam in a separate thread as my next upgrade way down the road (I'm already charting long term upgrades when I have more to spend), I have to do some research to find out if LED lighting has the same impact on electronic scales as fluorescent. I'll be glad to review the safety prime system once I have given it a go!

[Pat Cannon]

I agree the scale seems a bit spartan, the 100 grain max capacity will not allow measuring completed cartridges or even bullets for my pistols but should be adequate starting out.

Regarding weighing completed cartridges: this seemed like a great idea to me, to catch any under- or over-loads. However, when I'm loading powderpuff .38 Specials with Titegroup, I'm using about 3 grains of powder, and one of the first things I learned from a little testing is that the weight of empty cases varies by more than that!

But I would like to be able to weigh bullets.

[Dick Unger]

If you make just ONE mistake, you won't save any money. See Jon at Gunstop. The prices are right and you'll get EXACTLY what you need in equipment, and he'll show you how to adjust and load, he's got the presses mounted on the counter. It's not what you buy, it's what you buy that you don't need. If you don't need it, he won't pull it off the shelf.

[Seismic Sam]

I agree with Dick and some others - kits invariably have stuff in them that you will never need or use very little, and I'm not sure if they're throwing that stuff in to justify the price or try to meet everybody's needs. Maybe it's both. If you're only loading a couple of calibers, you might as well get the stuff you really need for those calibers.

[stesch_s10]

I'm with Dick. As a new reloader myself, I wish I had known about John at Gun Stop a few months before trying to buy all my equipment at Cabelas alone.. I was standing at Cabelas going.... ok, do I need this tool???? well.. no but I NEED this one. I get home and it turns out to be the opposite, I really needed the other tool and don't ever use the other.

After going to Gun Stop, John will tell you exactly what's up. He will ask you questions as to what your loading.. what type of gun.. So don't go in there and go.. well I dunno.. I dunno.

Plus Cabelas is a 45-50 minute drive for me.. and I didn't know that Gun Stop was only 20-25 mins.

[rugersol]

I agree with Dick and some others - kits invariably have stuff in them that you will never need or use very little, and I'm not sure if they're throwing that stuff in to justify the price or try to meet everybody's needs. Maybe it's both. If you're only loading a couple of calibers, you might as well get the stuff you really need for those calibers.

I mostly agree, on the kits ... although, when comparing the Lee Turret kit to the Rock Chucker "Supreme" kit, I think there's no harm in getting the Lee, fer the money! Obviously that guy that got that Rock Chucker kit last year to load 9mm, he got a lotta high-priced gear, he didn't need to. But, he was happy ... so there's that!

FWIW, I've developed a list of gear, over the years, as to recommending to new folks ... I've helped a few get set-up ... they mostly seem happy with what they got.

Anyhow, here's a link fer it ... http://ipsc.krok.us/?show=reloading ... there's some stuff on there that won't be ideal fer everyone (tough to come up with a one-size-fits-all list) ... but, the stuff that ain't ideal, only costs 'bout $16 total ... and then they got it, if they ever need it.

The Lyman press is a solid choice ... not too much money ... and ya can load most anything ya'd ever want. Some guys think dippers are a joke ... but they work ... and if a guy wants to get goin', and he's lookin' to save money, that lets him get started, and then he can always upgrade to a case-activated powder-measure. And when he does upgrade to the case-activated powder-measure, it's compatible with most any other turret 'er progressive press. Ultimately, if ya do get a progressive press that comes with a case-activated powder-measure, it's purdy nice havin' two 'er more of 'em ... so ya can switch loads w/o havin' to completely dismantle the thing, to switch powders.

And, if someone's loadin' mostly pistol, and wants to save some money, they can substitute the Lee Turret ... and if they got more money, and balls, they can substitute a LNL-AP.

[yuppiejr]

John's good people, I had the opportunity to meet + talk with him this afternoon and get a few questions answered while I accumulated a pile of consumables and some bits of gear that followed me home. I'm still researching what powders to use while following starter recipes by the book but have some Varget for the .223 & 7.62x54r and Bullseye + Titegroup powder for the .45 ACP and 9mm loads that will give me lots of options. I've got all of my primer bases covered via the CCI offerings, I'll be making a trip back to Gunstop once I've tested some of the smaller quantities of powder & bullet combos I picked based on my conversation + notes from the starter loads suggested in the books I've read. While John/Gunstop did not get all of my initial equipment purchase for the Lee press and some other Lee items he does not carry (Cabellas had the Lee Turret kit I wanted along with some of the other Lee stuff) I will be going to Gunstop for most of my consumables and other incidentals. It's about the same distance for me to Cabellas or Gunstop so it's equally costly in gas & time to visit either but I prefer the selection and service at Gunstop so it's going to be my primary reloading supply source unless I'm taking advantage of a screaming online deal.

I feel confident I've got the foundation for a solid reloading kit that will work for all of the calibers I shoot and produce the quantity I want at acceptable speed once I gain some experience and skill. Because the cost for the basics was so low I'm really not worried about upgrading components later and being out significant money since my "payback" calculations don't require a huge production of ammunition before I break-even (along the lines that Pat Canon came up with when he decided to load .38/357). I made sure the setup can be simplified to "single stage" style while I learn and load in manual phases but ramp up in output later without adding equipment later. I'll start taking advantage of things like the auto-disk powder measure and the auto index feature of the Lee press once I've got my skills and settings for a specific set of components dialed-in and tested at the range.

In the end, I stuck to my budget (under close wifely budget watch) by going with the Lee gear and while I'd have been fine with buying it all at Gunstop they simply don't stock some of the items I was after and had nothing at the same price point to offer (I did ask). There's nothing in my kit that doesn't have a specific purpose for the cartridges I'll be reloading mainly because of the fantastic information I've noted from Sam and various others in my research here + the books and lots of time on Youtube and of course my conversation with John today. I've completed the ABC's & Lyman books and am working my way through the Lee book now with the Hornady planned for last, but not least.

I have a list of the starter loads I'd like to test and will be focusing on only one cartridge for now, the .45 ACP. I've set up and organized my work area & equipment and did some test runs sizing, seating and measuring brass & bullets without the powder or primer to get a feel for the equipment. The turret press has already moved from the center to the right side of my loading bench for better ergonomics and I ended up installing some pine shelves to hold supplies + books & an additional fluorescent work light in the ceiling directly over the work area... in addition to a smaller work light directly mounted to the workbench about 18" above my work area (mechanical balance scales for life!). I'm actually thinking about installing a laptop or some other internet enabled device near the workbench on a movable arm (working in IT for a commercial furniture dealer has it's perks) so I have that resource at hand while I'm learning but there is no phone/TV/radio anywhere in the room to avoid distractions. The wife + kids have been through the "don't mess with Dad when the door's shut, I don't want to blow up myself or the house" speech though the cat likes to wander in and take a massive dump in his box just to remind me whos' turf I've set up in... little f.... never mind.

[yuppiejr]

After a second trip to Gunstop and a further discussion with John about some struggles I was having with powder measurement and my longer term reloading goals I ended up buying a Dillon Eliminator 500 gram 3-poise scale (his suggestion) for $52. It's easier to zero and and set for a specific measurement than my Lee, settles faster and has the capacity (500 vs 100) to weigh fully charged cartridges to help catch weight variances that might indicate a mistake in a powder charge that I could not catch with the Lee if I'm doing an "on the way to the box" final check. I compared the same weight on both scales and they came up with the same value so I don't think the Lee is a bad scale, it's just slower to operate and limited by a low max weight capacity...

I also grabbed some of the 55 grain .223 Hornady soft point bullets, H335 + Unique powder for my .223 & .45 Auto loads and a shell holder for my RCBS 7.62x54r Russian FL die set. Time to start building some ammunition and working on a log-book trip to the range to take notes on how everything works since I've got all of the gear and consumables I'll need for a while. Slow and steady wins the race...

[stesch_s10]

WOO HOO!!! your on your way there!!! I load Varget and .223/5.56 as well.