CCI primer problem ???????

[LarryFlew]

Like I said, I have given up.

Please close the thread.

[TH3180]

Here is what I think. You know that little troll that steals the primers when you drop them on the floor. His brother is the little guy that steals your socks in the drier. I think at night he ate 100 of your primers. When he **** them back into the primer box, all the silver was gone. Smell one of those primers. I will bet you a beer they smell like drier lint. I'm sure his brother helped him with eating all the primers.

IBL

[LarryFlew]

That's it and so simple. Recapped a couple more and sure enough they where stuffed with lint.

[Daddyo]

What concerns me more than the weird primers is the eff-oh from CCI.

[Spike]

What concerns me more than the weird primers is the eff-oh from CCI.

Indeed. This!

[LarryFlew]

WOW, sent him the additional close ups that are also posted here of the bad primer next to an upside down primer and here is the reply:

Larry: your pictures confirm that the primers were seated with the cup portion of the primer in the bottom of the primer pocket. You’ll need to ensure that the primers are not seated in that manner as they will not fire. Extreme care should be used when you decap the live primers, it is not suggested, but if accomplished use a very slow steady pressure to remove the primer from the pocket and discard the primer in a responsible manner. Reuse is very much discouraged as they most probably will not fire.

Coy

From: Larry [mailto:larry_flewelling@compuserve.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:53 PM
To: cciexpert
Subject: Re: CCI Ammo - Ask the Expert Form

[Norsesmithy]

Ask to speak with his manager.

[LarryFlew]

Just got another reply from the CCI guy:

Larry: the primers shown in the RWS cases are not CCI primers and they have been removed from a cartridge case as the decapping pin has pushed the anvil into the interior of the primer cup. The picture above shows a primer on the left cartridge which is not a CCI primer and has been inserted into the RWS case after being removed with a decapping pin. A bit curious is that the primer was not flattened when reseated as the decapping pin bulge in the primer cup appears to be above flush. The case on the right has a primer which is seated upside down in the case, can’t tell if it is a CCI primer, but could be ours.

The single primer photo with the anvil deeply seated into the primer cup does not appear to have the lacquer we use in our primers. From the photo I’m unable to tell if the primer cup has been nickel plated.

I suspect that someone has placed decapped primers in CCI primer packaging and returned them to a store where they were resold.

Coy

[Seismic Sam]

Just got another reply from the CCI guy:

Larry: the primers shown in the RWS cases are not CCI primers and they have been removed from a cartridge case as the decapping pin has pushed the anvil into the interior of the primer cup. The picture above shows a primer on the left cartridge which is not a CCI primer and has been inserted into the RWS case after being removed with a decapping pin. A bit curious is that the primer was not flattened when reseated as the decapping pin bulge in the primer cup appears to be above flush. The case on the right has a primer which is seated upside down in the case, can’t tell if it is a CCI primer, but could be ours.

The single primer photo with the anvil deeply seated into the primer cup does not appear to have the lacquer we use in our primers. From the photo I’m unable to tell if the primer cup has been nickel plated.

I suspect that someone has placed decapped primers in CCI primer packaging and returned them to a store where they were resold.

Coy

Well, okay then... Can't really tell what is going on here. The story about used primers being repackaged and then being returned to the dealer sounds like B.S. to me, as I have never heard of a return policy on reloading components such as primers or powder. Still, given the prototypical ignorant pimply youth in a big box store, you can't say it's not possible. Saying the primer on the left is not a CCI primer because it's brass is also suspect, because a simple plating error at CCI would account for this fact, along with some crappy QC inspection.

Now then - CCI primers are delivered in packaging with the external primer surface facing UP, which means either this didn't happen or Larry didn't look at the primer tray before he put them into his reloading setup, so somebody screwed up big time but I can't tell who.

NOW: The test of this will to be to try to fire some of these rounds, and if thay are ALL duds, then it was repackaged used primers. If even ONE fires, then that theory is out the window, and there has to be something in your reloading setup that is deforming the primer face. A second primer below the first could very well be a possibility, or some crud in the primer seating stem. I suppose shaved brass from improper alignment could do this.

As a humourous aside, for a long as I've know him John-Boy at Gunstop has been offering to sell "once fired primers" along with once fired brass.... if people ask him about deep discounts on primers...

[LarryFlew]

I already decapped, tossed and reloaded them.

Mostly my fault from the looking at them. Poured into the Lee tray and back and forth twice and all where face down BUT I should have noticed the difference in how they looked. Since I have done 1500 since them I'm not going to lose any more sleep over it. Did get one more reply after thanking him for his opinion.

Larry: your comment on the “never a silver cap on them” sent me back a few years when a customer complained the we’d “forgotten to put the bottoms on the primers” he did seat them upside down. My error, I get some of my exercise “leaping to conclusions”!

Coy

[Rem700]

I suspect that someone has placed decapped primers in CCI primer packaging and returned them to a store where they were resold.

Coy

I know that everyone supposedly has a no return policy on primers and powder but this was my first impression when seeing the pics.

[Seismic Sam]

As with many things, the devil is in the details, and I don't think this thread should end with some false assumptions that could mislead other handloaders.

Exhibit A: Some small pistol primers from the collection cup in my Lyman press. I had a couple of hundred to choose from, but they ALL looked like this and have for decades. (and I shoot CCI primers exclusively unless I can't get them because of Obama bin Lyin' being the POtuS))

No bulging whatsoever after decapping. None. Zero. Zip. Nada.



Now we have two seperate headstamps with bulged primers which I have shown before, so it PROBABLY has to be the gun and not the load, but I wouldn't say that's 100.00% certain. Still, the resemblance between these fired primers and Larry's primers is unmistakable.



And finally, from my "junk" 9mm brass box I found these Blazer cases that look the same, and again I suspect it's the gun. Blazer ammo is blasting ammo, and not designed for self defense with fancy bullets or loaded up to +P+ pressures like CorBon or Doubletap.



So: It would appear that the most likely possibility here is that some cheap scumbag decapped some bulged primers, put them back in a CCI case, and somehow managed to get a refund or exchange, and Larry got stuck with them. Seeing as you HAVE to open the primer box with the primer cups facing UP to keep them from falling all over the floor, there was still a critical error in not looking at the primers when the primer tray was pulled out.

P.S. Just tried decapping some military .223 primers that were crimped in place, and the primers came out flat even with the crimp.

[1911fan]

AS to the color difference, many years ago, there was a recall, notice to users, etc, where in someone had fed a sheet of material in to the machine that stamped the primer cups upside down, it took many thousands before they caught it, the notice was, yeah they are upside down, they will work fine, but if you see brass instead of nickel you may return them for credit and then the address.


Looking at the primers, I have had a few that looked like that, when I decapped and the spent primer did not fall free and was reseated into the case. Doubt the same thing would happen for several hundred, but I found 5 or so in a few hundred I had reloaded a while ago, I caught them when dropping them into the boxes I reuse.

[LarryFlew]

Still no dents in any of the Primers so they are not like fired primers. Where the firing pin dent would normally be is the highest part of the primer.