Another (*yawn*) AR15 project thread

[kowalzekc]

How do the palmetto build kits compair to the DPMS build kits?
IE: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/de ... ber=944328 or http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/de ... ber=819768

[Scott Notaeh]

How do the palmetto build kits compair to the DPMS build kits?
IE: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/de ... ber=944328 or http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/de ... ber=819768

Some folks consider DPMS to be a lower tier AR manufacturer. Top tier AR manufacturers include, Colt, BCM, DD, LMT, and FN parts. There are others. Low end stuff usually includes Bushmaster, Olympic, DPMS, CMMG, and S&W. There are others. Sometimes it depends on the specific model you are talking about.

Palmetto is newer. It is usually compared with the better stuff. It is 1:7 twist and will stabilize longer rounds. Bolt is made of Mil-spec Carpenter 158 steel, Shot peened, MPI and HPT (every single bolt. Some companies do this as a batch only process). Gas key is secured with grade 8 fasteners and staked per mil-spec. Barrel is also each MP and HP tested with the M4 feedramps.

DPMS is 1:9 twist and will not stabilize longer rounds as well. I don't think they use Carpenter 158 steel. They do not shot peen, HPT, or MPI their bolts or barrels. I have seen photos of improper staking. There are other issues. They have lots of fans here being local. Someone will most likely blast me for posting this. I have been to local machine shops that make parts for them.

This spreadsheet lists of bunch of stuff you might look for that some people think is important. https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key ... utput=html

This spreadsheet shows how some manufacturers compare. If people did not submit, it usually means they do not compare well. https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreads ... utput=html

Someone who owns one of the rifles that I listed as lower tier will now come and defend their rifle. I am sure all the lower tier stuff is mostly fine too. Read the links above and the stuff that they link to and make up your own mind on what is important.

[Snowgun]

How do the palmetto build kits compair to the DPMS build kits?
IE: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/de ... ber=944328 or http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/de ... ber=819768

Some folks consider DPMS to be a lower tier AR manufacturer. Top tier AR manufacturers include, Colt, BCM, DD, LMT, and FN parts. There are others. Low end stuff usually includes Bushmaster, Olympic, DPMS, CMMG, and S&W. There are others. Sometimes it depends on the specific model you are talking about.

Palmetto is newer. It is usually compared with the better stuff. It is 1:7 twist and will stabilize longer rounds. Bolt is made of Mil-spec Carpenter 158 steel, Shot peened, MPI and HPT (every single bolt. Some companies do this as a batch only process). Gas key is secured with grade 8 fasteners and staked per mil-spec. Barrel is also each MP and HP tested with the M4 feedramps.

DPMS is 1:9 twist and will not stabilize longer rounds as well. I don't think they use Carpenter 158 steel. They do not shot peen, HPT, or MPI their bolts or barrels. I have seen photos of improper staking. There are other issues. They have lots of fans here being local. Someone will most likely blast me for posting this. I have been to local machine shops that make parts for them.

This spreadsheet lists of bunch of stuff you might look for that some people think is important. https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key ... utput=html

This spreadsheet shows how some manufacturers compare. If people did not submit, it usually means they do not compare well. https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreads ... utput=html

Someone who owns one of the rifles that I listed as lower tier will now come and defend their rifle. I am sure all the lower tier stuff is mostly fine too. Read the links above and the stuff that they link to and make up your own mind on what is important.

I think the thing to keep in mind here, is to consider a AR like a 1911.

If you really are into this whole "gun" thing, than you will be a discerning buyer for price and tweeking what you get. This is in comparison to putting up the big money and getting a turnkey system. PLUS, in the real world, it will be hard to fail things with the type of usage the average internet operator puts on their weapon's platform.

The staking is a great example. I care more that I can get the general pieces from DPMS at a good price and that they shoot with great accuracy. I will take the damn staking out and red lock tite that bastard on day one. If i'm dropping THREE to FOUR times the cash on a SCAR or whatever, i'd be pissed if my gas key loosens up off the bat.

Things like twist? Well, low end guys quit bitching and get a Krieger or whatever if you need that. The question one needs to ask is "what do I really NEED" and "what am I going to really DO".

Price and AR's is a logarithmic curve, which means that small increases in quality (measured for real and not by popular "feeling" ) are going to increase in cost significantly. Especially if you are buying whole systems.

[rugersol]

How do the palmetto build kits compair to the DPMS build kits?
IE: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/de ... ber=944328 or http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/de ... ber=819768

Off the top of my head, I'd say the Palmetto upper looks to come pre-assembled.

I've ordered lots of stuff from Midway ... when they say it's in-stock, it's in-stock ... and in ships in a day 'er two ... and I get it in 'nother day 'er two ... they've also taken a couple returns with no questions ... I prefer to deal with them, when I can.

That said, Midway's not always the least expensive. It pays to shop around.

I've never bought from Palmetto, but it sounds like a bunch of folks here, have. I've heard no complaints. At which, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to giving 'em a try!

[Scott Notaeh]

I think the thing to keep in mind here, is to consider a AR like a 1911.

If you really are into this whole "gun" thing, than you will be a discerning buyer for price and tweeking what you get. This is in comparison to putting up the big money and getting a turnkey system. PLUS, in the real world, it will be hard to fail things with the type of usage the average internet operator puts on their weapon's platform.

The staking is a great example. I care more that I can get the general pieces from DPMS at a good price and that they shoot with great accuracy. I will take the damn staking out and red lock tite that bastard on day one. If i'm dropping THREE to FOUR times the cash on a SCAR or whatever, i'd be pissed if my gas key loosens up off the bat.

Things like twist? Well, low end guys quit bitching and get a Krieger or whatever if you need that. The question one needs to ask is "what do I really NEED" and "what am I going to really DO".

Price and AR's is a logarithmic curve, which means that small increases in quality (measured for real and not by popular "feeling" ) are going to increase in cost significantly. Especially if you are buying whole systems.

You are right for the most part except in this case there is no real difference in price between the good stuff and the less good stuff. You are right that you can stake the bolt carrier if needed but you won't improve the metallurgy or testing. I agree that it most likely does not matter for plinking. On the twist, if you only plan to shoot 55 grain, either one will work fine. If you want to shoot the heavier M855 or Mk 262, you are a little bit better off with a 1:7 twist accuracy wise. Some people's 1:9 twist rifles have trouble stabilizing 75 or 77 grain rounds.

Palmetto can be slow shipping. Midway has been perfect for me.

[Cuda66]

Myself, I'm not much of an irons guy so it holds no real interest to me. And if i decided I wanted the long sight radius I would do a low pro block and a FF rail-mounted sight to accomplish it. Many different ways to skin a cat.

Actually, that is exactly how I would build "my" dissy - a 15" FF tube (like a Troy TRX Extreme) on a 16" barrel with a sight at the end of the top rail. In fact, there is a newer SW M&P15 out very similar to this concept ... M&P15 TS ...I drool a little every time I see it.

JC

That's pretty much how I built my "dissy"--except I have a used a full-length JP/V-Tac tube.

No sight on it, though...I just have my ACOG on it for now.

[Hobotorium]

I use a Palmetto State Armory BCG on my 20" BCM upper and it has been flawless. Buy from Palmetto with confidence, they are a solid company.

[Scratch]

For those (like me) who have been wanting to order some stuff from PSA, but they've been out of stock... They must have got a bunch of stuff in today because my stuff was now in stock.

Ordered!

[Scott Notaeh]

Just assembled two PSA lowers. $49 stripped lowers and $89 lower build kits including buffers and stocks.

Woot!

[Scratch]

My lowers just came in! Other parts still in transit.