Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby tman on Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:19 pm

goalie wrote:http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/132807258.html

Just a snippet that I thought was interesting. I'm sure if everyone had continued to second guess the guy and complain about his actions without having a **** clue what had transpired, the star trib would have never noticed.......

:roll:

3rd paragraph from the bottom:

The story of Evanovich's shooting was retold this week on several Internet forums and chat groups devoted to gun rights, with commentators affirming the legality of the shooting.



I read the paper's quote differently. I thought they were trying to say two different things: 1) lots of stories on the chat groups and, B) local commentators (a la Erik, Andrew, and the Professor) affirming the legality of the shooting.

I just chocked the mixing of the two ideas up to poor writing. That, and I don't believe that any of our group qualify as "commentators."
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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby traveler on Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:23 pm

tman wrote:That, and I don't believe that any of our group qualify as "commentators."


That sure isn't going to get you any grilled hamburgers or hot dogs at the Lake Harriet get-together.

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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby shadeslanding on Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:43 pm

elmerfuddem wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:
shadeslanding wrote:Take a look at the facebook page now. They're calling for a "National Day of Action" Monday Nov 26. Read down the page if you can make it through the Ebonics.
I like this comment:
Reggie Dickfer
y'all gonna have any extra chicken and catfish?

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=239226432798160


Does not let you view unless you are logged into FaceBook. I do not do facebook. Any social interaction I require can be found in a gun shop.


The facebook site in question is a parody page. Some wise guy (troll) set up the facebook page in reply to the pages set up by the muggers family.
Here is another quote in Ebonics you might enjoy.
"I gots some tier1 Hi-point pistol fo sale. I bring them to the event fo yall. gotta stay strappd so we dont becom victums like D."


Ahhh I stand corrected. I knew I was having too much fun reading it!
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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby tweener on Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:29 am

Again......for all those who have studied criminal justice.....

Now that the prosecuter has deceided to not file charges.....what are the chances that he could later file charges....or better yet, is there a way that despite the prosecuters feelings/actions.....that a grand jury would be convened? Who initiates a grand jury? Could the deceased mans lawyers try to have a grand jury convened?
Never mind the typos. My keyboard is full of beer, crumbs and Dr. Peper........and .........the typo and grammer police can go to........HE..!.....no...wait a minute......California!
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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby RobD on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:38 am

tweener wrote:Again......for all those who have studied criminal justice.....

Now that the prosecuter has deceided to not file charges.....what are the chances that he could later file charges....or better yet, is there a way that despite the prosecuters feelings/actions.....that a grand jury would be convened? Who initiates a grand jury? Could the deceased mans lawyers try to have a grand jury convened?

Its not impossible, but highly improbable.

Right now Freeman has gone on record saying he's examined the evidence and feels the shooting was justified. There would have to be some pretty convincing evidence for him to reverse and say he was wrong. (Not something lawyers like to do)

Grand jury is for criminal cases. The only thing that the family's lawyer can do is civil proceedings. (Which would be a long shot as Evanovich died while committing a felony)
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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby RobD on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:48 am

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 07258.html

What a great family. I'm waiting to see her charged with homicide.
Freeman also announced that Evanovich's sister, Octavia Shonte Marberry, has been charged in a series of violent robberies that culminated with her brother's shooting. Told of the prosecutor's announcement Friday, Evanovich's mother, Mary, reacted with disbelief.



And kudos to Gary for heeding Akbar's warning and making a solid comment.

Gary Shade, a firearms instructor based in Apple Valley, said he agreed with the Hennepin County attorney's decision to not press charges against the shooter, though he generally discourages his students from chasing suspected criminals.

"Not knowing all of the information in the case, it sounds like he was well within his rights," said Shade. "He didn't have the gun out. He didn't threaten the guy with a gun until he felt threatened. He certainly has a right to demand a purse back."
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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby goalie on Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:34 am

tman wrote:
I read the paper's quote differently. I thought they were trying to say two different things: 1) lots of stories on the chat groups and, B) local commentators (a la Erik, Andrew, and the Professor) affirming the legality of the shooting.

I just chocked the mixing of the two ideas up to poor writing. That, and I don't believe that any of our group qualify as "commentators."


You didn't read it any differently. I was just pointing out (again) that this thread is far from private. It was also ***gasp*** apparently one of several being noticed by the media. ;)

Anyone think the police and or prosecutor didn't read it?

My point was, and always has been, that there is a time and a place to discuss some things. This thread was (and is) IMO, neither. The first few pages of this thread, ebonics aside, didn't seem a whole lot different than the original Facebook memorial page (the troll one ruled, so we'll leave that out of it..... :mrgreen: ) in terms of ignorant opinions based on something other than reality (usually speculation and emotion).

Nobody has ever said you shouldn't discuss how and when to use deadly force. Where you do it, and picking apart the actions of someone who is still in potential legal trouble in a very public venue, is what annoyed me.

Then again, I've been in that same neighborhood, sitting in a conference room at my work, listening to an MPD officer tell me that "civilians shouldn't even have guns" after a carjacking attempt. I'm almost tempted to post the particulars just to hear the usual suspects tell me what I did wrong, and, more importantly, what they would have done differently...... :roll:
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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby Dick Unger on Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:53 am

Talking about current events, trying to learn scraps of information available is EXACTLY what free people do. Sorry certain folks don't "like" that. When we get it "wrong" it encourages the people who have tried to shape public opinion by actually WITHOLDING information to release the same.

There will ALWAYS be a struggle between government and the people, as long as we have a free society, and that's as it should be and must be for our system to continue.

And people will be continually "annoyed".
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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby White Horseradish on Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:30 am

goalie wrote:Anyone think the police and or prosecutor didn't read it?
We know the police read it. Tman was here, wasn't he? :mrgreen:

If you mean MPD, it is unlikely that they did. I am not aware of any MPD officers here. I find it doubtful they would go looking for our opinions on the subject. I don't know a ton of cops, so it may not be a representative sample, but most I have come across see themselves as an authority, especially on stuff like this, and don't give a whole lot of weight to what non-cops think.

goalie wrote:Then again, I've been in that same neighborhood, sitting in a conference room at my work, listening to an MPD officer tell me that "civilians shouldn't even have guns" after a carjacking attempt.
And he got this way because he read MNGT? Or would not reading something on MNGT change his mind?
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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby tim on Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:32 am

This is a discussion forum, that has a theme centralized around firearms, its even called Minnesota Gun Talk. If you dont want to talk about current gun related events I would suggest joining another forum.

There is no harm in forming an opinion about a current event, hell that's what the news company's do right?
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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby lenny7 on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:21 am

I don't see how our opinions and reactions will have any affect on the legal course of events. I do, however, see how Heather Martin and folks like her could find something we say and twist it around and use it to their advantage.
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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby White Horseradish on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:28 am

lenny7 wrote:Heather Martin and folks like her could find something we say and twist it around and use it to their advantage.

For those people it really doesn't matter whether we say anything at all. They make **** up all the time anyway.
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Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby xd ED on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:39 am

lenny7 wrote:I don't see how our opinions and reactions will have any affect on the legal course of events. I do, however, see how Heather Martin and folks like her could find something we say and twist it around and use it to their advantage.

This will happen regardless of what is, or isn't posted here.
A review of the two local online papers' coverage shows a devolution from something close to journalism to little more than tabloid-esque sensationalizing, using terms and phrases such as: "chased him down ....and shot him dead..." "shot to kill" and to this day refer to the dead mugger as a victim. There were, and are reasons not to discuss this and other such events in a public forum. Concern that the media, or a special interest group is going to latch onto something would not be a big concern for me. Both entities have a demonstrated track record of ignoring fact, reason, and integrity when it comes to their agendas.
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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby tazdevil on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:43 am

tim wrote:This is a discussion forum, that has a theme centralized around firearms, its even called Minnesota Gun Talk. If you dont want to talk about current gun related events I would suggest joining another forum.

There is no harm in forming an opinion about a current event, hell that's what the news company's do right?



Problem is, news media make it appear to be FACT instead of OPINION. They should have to print or state that this is opinion, not facts being reported. As they currently do on opinion shows etc.
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Re: Permit holder kills mugger in S. Minneapolis!

Postby Pinnacle on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:58 am

Dick Unger wrote:Talking about current events, trying to learn scraps of information available is EXACTLY what free people do. Sorry certain folks don't "like" that. When we get it "wrong" it encourages the people who have tried to shape public opinion by actually WITHOLDING information to release the same.

There will ALWAYS be a struggle between government and the people, as long as we have a free society, and that's as it should be and must be for our system to continue.

And people will be continually "annoyed".


Dick

It is not a matter of people liking or not liking discussion, it is a time and a place issue. This is a good place for a discussion for certian, the timing and the number and type of people that may run across a discussion like this when someones life is hanging in the balance is the issue. Taking someone apart on the internet on a matter where we were not directly involved, but have a distinct opinion on may be a careless move.

This has been at least my contention from day one, and is not an opposition to free and open discussion, just a measure of prudence. Nobody wants to see a permit holder get the shaft unless that person is CLEARLY and without a shadow of a doubt in the wrong as in just plain wrong. This as well as a couple of other situations that I can clearly recall were not so very clear cut and people were weighing in with their opinions.

It is a matter of someone opening their mouth and removing someones right to remain silent, or give ammunition so to speak to a DA, or an investigator that scare some of us. (Trust me, you can be charged for the statements of OTHERS)

It is a matter of practicality that the less attention that one can draw to something - sometimes that is best. I know that many of you guys dont want to belive em or Goalie when we tell you (TELL YOU) that there are people that make decisions on whether someone faces charges or not look over these forums to get a general consensus.

There are no Good answers here on what to do or what not to do - sometimes DOING NOTHING, and most especially SAYING nothing in PUBLIC is the best policy. In this case, I feel strongly that the DA did the right thing, and the permit holder, while there may be some questions that we would have, and statements that we may want to make about the reported events, justice was on the right side.

The Police are NOT the enemy, the DA is not the enemy - the TRUTH and HOW YOU FOLLOW THE RULES are the determining factors on the outcome. Crapping all over the police, the DA and others is not a help for someone that is facing punishment for what that person thought was the right thing to do at the time.

If it were I in that same situation, I would hope that people that were not there would reserve comment on a situation until the legal system ran its course and I were delcalred a free person. Someo of us just want to remind others about common sense.
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