personal gun sale question

[LongRange]

I recently moved to this state and wanted to be sure there were no weird regulations on selling my personal firearms to another individual. Where I come from its a simple "heres the cash" "heres your gun" FTF deal for rifles, shotguns and handguns, other than class 3 of course. and where I am from anyone asking to run a background or FFL the firearm for a private transaction, is laughed at and told to fly a kite. Same here?

[Ranger01]

FTF deals are completely legal without going through an FFL. Minimum ages are 16 (IIRC) for long guns, and 18 for Assault Rifles/Handguns. You can go through an FFL if you wish but in most cases its a waste of money (at least in my opinion). Most sellers ask to look at a drivers license and permit to purchase/ carry when dealing with people they don't know and will sometimes take down the information.

If you want these posts have a bill of sale you could download and complete at the time of the sale.

http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11498&p=118983&hilit=Bill+of+Sale#p118983

http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6179&p=63196&hilit=Bill+of+Sale#p63196

[45Badger]

I recently moved to this state and wanted to be sure there were no weird regulations on selling my personal firearms to another individual. Where I come from its a simple "heres the cash" "heres your gun" FTF deal for rifles, shotguns and handguns, other than class 3 of course. and where I am from anyone asking to run a background or FFL the firearm for a private transaction, is laughed at and told to fly a kite. Same here?

Welcome to Minnesota! I also came from a cash and carry state. State resident, of age, not prohibited (wife beater, druggie, felon, etc) are all that matters. Some folks are a bit anal/cautious and want more. I'm happy to show my DL and PTC and even sign a piece of paper if it makes them feel better. I do not give copies or numbers off documents.

[MrVvrroomm]

Welcome to Minnesota! I also came from a cash and carry state. State resident, of age, not prohibited (wife beater, druggie, felon, etc) are all that matters. Some folks are a bit anal/cautious and want more. I'm happy to show my DL and PTC and even sign a piece of paper if it makes them feel better. I do not give copies or numbers off documents.

This is how I roll

[LongRange]

OK then, so It is my choice if I wish to get someone to sign a bill of sale etc? When I purchased a firearm from cabelas in rogers 2 weeks ago, nothing was said of a "permit to purchase" whats that about?

[tazdevil]

OK then, so It is my choice if I wish to get someone to sign a bill of sale etc? When I purchased a firearm from cabelas in rogers 2 weeks ago, nothing was said of a "permit to purchase" whats that about?

Depends on the firearm. A PTP is required for certain types of firearms (handguns for example), but not necessary for most long guns. I'm not sure on AR style rifles, someone else can chime in on that. I assume they ran you through the NICS check though?

[tman]

OK then, so It is my choice if I wish to get someone to sign a bill of sale etc? When I purchased a firearm from cabelas in rogers 2 weeks ago, nothing was said of a "permit to purchase" whats that about?

Depends on the firearm. A PTP is required for certain types of firearms (handguns for example), but not necessary for most long guns. I'm not sure on AR style rifles, someone else can chime in on that. I assume they ran you through the NICS check though?

The short version: MN law provides for a FREE permit to purchase a handgun or "Military Style Assault Weapon", which is good for one year. If you are buying either of those from a licensed gun dealer, you will be asked to show the permit.

MN does NOT regulate firearm sales between private parties. However, sales to people who are not eligible, or use the gun in a crime of violence, will leave you on the hook for a crime for up to one year after the sale.

Private sellers often ask to see the buyer's permit, because it is good evidence that the buyer was NOT prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm at the time of the sale. (It's a CYA thing.)

[ironfoot]

Below are a few provisions to watch out for. In addition to criminal liability, you could be subject to civil liability if you transfer a gun to somebody, and the gun is later used to cause damage, injury or death. I would be leary of selling a gun to somebody I don't know, unless they had a permit and passed a background check.


Subd. 1f.Gross misdemeanor; transferring firearm without background check.

A person, other than a federally licensed firearms dealer, who transfers a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to another without complying with the transfer requirements of section 624.7132, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor if the transferee possesses or uses the weapon within one year after the transfer in furtherance of a felony crime of violence, and if:

(1) the transferee was prohibited from possessing the weapon under section 624.713 at the time of the transfer; or

(2) it was reasonably foreseeable at the time of the transfer that the transferee was likely to use or possess the weapon in furtherance of a felony crime of violence.


Subd. 1b.Felony; furnishing to minors.

Whoever, in any municipality of this state, furnishes a minor under 18 years of age with a firearm, airgun, ammunition, or explosive without the prior consent of the minor's parent or guardian or of the police department of the municipality is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both. Possession of written evidence of prior consent signed by the minor's parent or guardian is a complete defense to a charge under this subdivision.


Subd. 1c.Felony; furnishing dangerous weapon.

Whoever recklessly furnishes a person with a dangerous weapon in conscious disregard of a known substantial risk that the object will be possessed or used in furtherance of a felony crime of violence is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both.


https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id ... rd=firearm

[45Badger]

Well that explains why some people get anal about this. Typical overbearing "you betcha" law.

Note to everybody who I sold a gun to- Please don't go postal or rob a bank until a year has passed from date of sale

[mitchx3]

will leave you on the hook for a crime for up to one year after the sale.

Are you referring to what Ironfoot cited or is there more somewhere?

[tazdevil]

OK then, so It is my choice if I wish to get someone to sign a bill of sale etc? When I purchased a firearm from cabelas in rogers 2 weeks ago, nothing was said of a "permit to purchase" whats that about?

Depends on the firearm. A PTP is required for certain types of firearms (handguns for example), but not necessary for most long guns. I'm not sure on AR style rifles, someone else can chime in on that. I assume they ran you through the NICS check though?

The short version: MN law provides for a FREE permit to purchase a handgun or "Military Style Assault Weapon", which is good for one year. If you are buying either of those from a licensed gun dealer, you will be asked to show the permit.

MN does NOT regulate firearm sales between private parties. However, sales to people who are not eligible, or use the gun in a crime of violence, will leave you on the hook for a crime for up to one year after the sale.

Private sellers often ask to see the buyer's permit, because it is good evidence that the buyer was NOT prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm at the time of the sale. (It's a CYA thing.)

I dont get the one year thing. Lets say you have a friend who is PTC holder. No prior criminal history or any deviant behavior ever. He buys your Glock (sorry had to use a gun of some form) and then, 6 months later, goes and robs a bank using the same Glock. How could you ever be held accountable for that? You had no idea (and he may not have either) that he was going to rob a bank 6 months later.

[traveler]

I dont get the one year thing. Lets say you have a friend who is PTC holder. No prior criminal history or any deviant behavior ever. He buys your Glock (sorry had to use a gun of some form) and then, 6 months later, goes and robs a bank using the same Glock. How could you ever be held accountable for that? You had no idea (and he may not have either) that he was going to rob a bank 6 months later.

I believe that the one-year "thingie" has to do with your selling a handgun to a prohibited person. You have a one-year window of liability if the prohibited person does something stupid with the firearm. If you sell to a person who could legally purchase the handgun your liability would be nil. That is why many here demand to see a PTP and a license to validate the PTP. It is to CYA. That is never a bad thing. Never. Inconvenient, yes. Bad, no. By the way IANAL.

[tman]

will leave you on the hook for a crime for up to one year after the sale.

Are you referring to what Ironfoot cited or is there more somewhere?

I was referring to the same statute as Ironfoot.

(sent from a "secure location" via scrambled phone)

[tman]

How could you ever be held accountable for that? You had no idea (and he may not have either) that he was going to rob a bank 6 months later.

Remember that the prosecutor will look at the totality of the circumstances and hopefully ALL facts before making a decision to (not) prosecute. Whether or not they showed a PTP will be just one factor.

(sent from a "secure location" via scrambled phone)

[SpiderPig]

Not something I worry about. If I am purchasing, I would never give anyone copies of any of my docs. People do not get prosecuted and are not held civilly liable unless they knew the person was ineligible or intended to use it in a crime. It's a canard that you are in some way responsible if someone does something stupid with something you don't own and legally sold.