OAL questions

[RottenHam]

I'm a newbie reloader loading my first ever cartridges. My initial caliber of choice is .38 Spl. I'm using 100% Lyman equipment. I cast my own bullets using Lyman moulds 358311 and 358091.

I have some question about OAL for cartridges with these bullets. The Lyman 49th handbook says OAL for .38s with the 358311 should be 1.550" and 1.317" for the 358091. Lyman says these bullets should be crimped in the "forward band" or "front groove" which I take to mean the groove closest to the tip of the bullet. When I do this, I get OALs significantly shorter than 1.550" and 1.317". I get OALs around 1.470" and 1.280". My questions are:

1. Should I be concerned about the shorter OALs? Specifically, do I risk having too much pressure in the case due to the deeper bullet seating and subsequent diminished volume?
2. Is it even possible to get a 1.550" OAL if one seats the bullet according to Lyman's instructions? I don't see how. Am I missing something?

Also, I have a Lyman bullet puller. It doesn't seem to work with any of the rounds I've loaded. Presumably, this is because the crimp is doing its job very well and holding the bullet firmly in the case. Is my inability to remove a bullet from a case with a bullet puller a sign that the case is crimped too hard and may generate too much pressure?

FWIW, the gun I intend to fire these in is a new Taurus 82 rated for +P loads. Hopefully that means it should be able to withstand newbie reloading mistakes.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

[LarryFlew]

What type of puller? If hammer type it should do any bullet if used properly. If puller on your loader type it may not be grabbing your bullet right.

[Rem700]

Both bullets only have one crimp groove the others are lube grooves.
Bullets loaded short can increase pressure because of the shorter OAL decreasing internal demensions.
Just because your Taurus is rated for plus + doesnt mean it can withstand loading mistakes newbie or not.
Purchase several reloading books read cover to cover and then repeat reading cover to cover.
Try to find a mentor if at all possible to help you thru the initial stages if possible.
I kinda expect Sam to be by shortly to flame you take it with a grain of salt as hes only trying to keep you safe and the others around you.

[Rem700]

Posting your appx location might get you someone local willing to help.

A tightly crimped bullet might take the swing of a bullet puller similiar to trying to drive a nail.

Is your 38 brass trimmed to the correct length?

[gyrfalcon]

n/m

[RottenHam]

What type of puller? If hammer type it should do any bullet if used properly. If puller on your loader type it may not be grabbing your bullet right.

I'm using a hammer type puller.

[RottenHam]

Both bullets only have one crimp groove the others are lube grooves.
Bullets loaded short can increase pressure because of the shorter OAL decreasing internal demensions.
Just because your Taurus is rated for plus + doesnt mean it can withstand loading mistakes newbie or not.
Purchase several reloading books read cover to cover and then repeat reading cover to cover.
Try to find a mentor if at all possible to help you thru the initial stages if possible.
I kinda expect Sam to be by shortly to flame you take it with a grain of salt as hes only trying to keep you safe and the others around you.

No need for flames. I want to be safe. That's why I'm here asking questions.

[RottenHam]

Posting your appx location might get you someone local willing to help.

A tightly crimped bullet might take the swing of a bullet puller similiar to trying to drive a nail.

I've given it numerous good whacks and it still won't let go.

Is your 38 brass trimmed to the correct length?

Yes. Brass is new, never fired Remington brass that I verified is of the correct length.

[RottenHam]

Posting your appx location might get you someone local willing to help.

Location is Plymouth, MN.

[gyrfalcon]

You could also be loosing length in where you're crimping in the groove:



Or the brass you're using may have been trimmed too much?

[Countryfried Frank]

.38 Special kinda sucks to reload since it started life as a black powder round with a rather large case volume. A full power load may only fill the case a quarter to a third of a way full. A double charge is much more easy to miss and it will make bad things happen to your Taurus. I've never cast my own so I can't speak to the specifics of the bullet but if I were in your shoes I would go to Gunstop, see John, and buy some factory bullets of good quality to eliminate them as your problem component. Even with new brass checking the length is not a bad idea. Not as critical for handgun as it is for rifle but still worth a look if you are having issues.

Oh yeah, buy a loading book and read it. I have the Speer #14, a friend has a Lyman. We swap and compare notes.

[rugersol]

Ideally, ya'd have someone with experience helping you ... in person.

That said, to get an answer on yer crimp here, it'd be best if ya could post a close-up pic ... like this ...



IMO, that's a bit excessive ... not too much ... but a bit.

0.08in is quite a ways off. With light loads, in .38spl, I wouldn't think it'd be a problem. But my best guess is, yer crimping well past the crimp-groove ... probly over the top of the first band. That, or yer information's wrong.

On this bullet ...



... ya should be crimping so the case mouth bends inward jest behind the first band (roughly halfway along the length of the bullet).

[Seismic Sam]

Dammit!! I was just about to have a nice dinner of roadkill possum under my bridge after Snowgun disturbed me, and now a TOTAL n00b shows up!!

SHEESH!!!

Your OAL's are about 50 thousandths short, and the fact that you can't pull the bullets with an inertia hammer suggests a limp wrist or an overly aggressive crimp. Fact number 1: Inertia pullers are to be whacked on concrete floors with a quick snapping wrist action, and it may take 2 or three tries. You don't whack the inertia puller on the reloading bench or any other surface.

Going with the overly agressive crimp, practically no rookie can set up a seating die that also does a roll crimp the first time they try, and PLEASE tell me that you even bothered to carefully read the instructions that came with the die!! The correct procedure is to run an empty case up into the seating die, and then screw the die in until it contacts the case. Back off the die a full half turn, and lock it in place. Then back off the bullet seating stem, put a bullet in the case, and run it back up into the seating die. Measure the OAL, and keep screwing in the seating stem down until you get the OAL called for.

After that, you back off the seating stem, unlock the die, and start turning it down in 1/8th turn increments until you feel the die start to crimp the case around the bullet. Using the knife edge of your digital micrometer, you probably want a roll crimp of no more that 5 mils in case diameter further back on the bullet, and yes, getting those knife edges set properly on the very edge of the case mouth will be a pain. Get used to it and get over it. When you have the crimp right (and buying a box of Cowboy Action 38's would be a good idea to see what dimensions the pro's use...) you lock the die into the press head, run the finished round back up into the die, and then screw down the seating stem until it contacts the bullet, and I don't mean screw down the stem hard! Then lock the stem in place.

As a rookie, I'll lay odds that you can't get the dimensions right in less than THREE full tries. Setting a combination seating and crimp die right requires a LOT of practice.

And now my flat possum sammich is ice cold, and about as appetizing as Heffay's avatar...

Oh, and don't post again until you have read your reloading manual COVER-TO-COVER, and I mean EVERY page. Lyman #49, Speer #14, or Hornady #8 are all good choices.

[RottenHam]

I've attached a photo of two sample cartridges. In each one, I'm crimping on the first cannelure from the tip of the bullet--right in the middle of the lube-filled groove. The one on the right looks like it didn't go in squarely.

[RottenHam]

Dammit!! I was just about to have a nice dinner of roadkill possum under my bridge after Snowgun disturbed me, and now a TOTAL n00b shows up!!

SHEESH!!!

Sorry.

Your OAL's are about 50 thousandths short, and the fact that you can't pull the bullets with an inertia hammer suggests a limp wrist or an overly aggressive crimp. Fact number 1: Inertia pullers are to be whacked on concrete floors with a quick snapping wrist action, and it may take 2 or three tries. You don't whack the inertia puller on the reloading bench or any other surface.

I've tried both the bench and the concrete floor "with a quick snapping wrist action" for "2 or three tries" so I'm suspecting an overly aggressive crimp.

Going with the overly agressive crimp, practically no rookie can set up a seating die that also does a roll crimp the first time they try, and PLEASE tell me that you even bothered to carefully read the instructions that came with the die!!

I did. Several times.

The correct procedure is to run an empty case up into the seating die, and then screw the die in until it contacts the case. Back off the die a full half turn, and lock it in place. Then back off the bullet seating stem, put a bullet in the case, and run it back up into the seating die. Measure the OAL, and keep screwing in the seating stem down until you get the OAL called for.

After that, you back off the seating stem, unlock the die, and start turning it down in 1/8th turn increments until you feel the die start to crimp the case around the bullet. Using the knife edge of your digital micrometer, you probably want a roll crimp of no more that 5 mils in case diameter further back on the bullet, and yes, getting those knife edges set properly on the very edge of the case mouth will be a pain. Get used to it and get over it. When you have the crimp right (and buying a box of Cowboy Action 38's would be a good idea to see what dimensions the pro's use...) you lock the die into the press head, run the finished round back up into the die, and then screw down the seating stem until it contacts the bullet, and I don't mean screw down the stem hard! Then lock the stem in place.

As a rookie, I'll lay odds that you can't get the dimensions right in less than THREE full tries. Setting a combination seating and crimp die right requires a LOT of practice.

I made several (more than 3) dummy rounds to get the crimp in the right place. Of course, I then couldn't pull the bullets afterwards.

Oh, and don't post again until you have read your reloading manual COVER-TO-COVER, and I mean EVERY page. Lyman #49, Speer #14, or Hornady #8 are all good choices.

I've ready Lyman #49 cover-to-cover. I re-read the chapter handgun loading before I started. I've also read the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th ed..