Which Powder Dispenser/Scale combo to get?

[Bulldawg]

I want to get a Powder Dispenser/Scale combo and am looking for some personal reviews if anyone has any experience with the three major brands. The RCBS Chargemaster, Lyman DPS 3, and Hornady Lock-n-Load Auto Charge are the units I am considering. I am not much of a Kool Aid drinker so I don't care what color it is. I am interested in ease of use, reliablility, accuracy, consistancy...etc... The RCBS is the most expensive with the Hornady close to $100.00 less and the Lyman somewhere in between. Thanks in advance for any input you can provide.

[Rodentman]

I have a DPS 3 but I pretty much gave it up for a Redding 3 BR powder dispenser and 1010 scale. With most powders this combination is incredibly accurate. For some powders that don't meter well, like IMHO Trail Boss, I actually use a Lee dipper especially since charges aren't "critical" starting at the min for TB.

[OldmanFCSA]

I have both a RCBS and a Smart Reloader ISD electronic powder dispenser and scale.
After changing codes in both units, I am able to get both to drop within o.1v grains of each other.
Please understand - there is a built-in rounding error that limits accuracy - Sam has written often about it and is well versed on the topic

Both unit are Made in China - but the RCBS has a good reputation, although the ISD has a 2 year warranty vs 6 months for the RCBS, as I remember.
Smart Reloader has covered any warranty issues I have had - better than RCBS.

The Smart Reloader ISD out of the box will not run, a default code was improperly set at factory. Instructions are included on how to reset the defaults. RCBS does not publish their codes, but are readily available thru other sources.

Both work great for me, and both are used for 248 grain loadings in 50BMG - a rounding error does not affect me.
A smaller cartridge may have issues.

My Opinion!!!!

[usnret]

I have the Lyman 1200DPS3 and I like it. I know people that have the RCBS one and they like theirs. I am pretty sure that all of the brands have their good points and bad points. You can go to say Midways site and look each one up and read the user reviews on each one. But it seems like they all pretty much all have the same problems according to the reviews.
So, basically it is almost a crap shoot.

[steve4102]

I have the Lyman 1200 with a hop up kit. It's fast, accurate and been working well for several years. I cannot comment on any of the others as I have not had any up close and personal experience with them.

I had a problem with my Lyman about 2 1/2 years after I purchased it. The key pad took a ****. I new it was out of warranty and I was going to have to pay $$ to get it fixed. I sent it back to Lyman for repairs and a cost estimate. Two weeks later it was on my door step good as new and free of charge. Can't argue with that.

[Seismic Sam]

To sum up quickly, ANY electronic scale with a precision of .01 gram or 0.1 grain is JUNK!! Don't buy it!! Doesn't matter how much it costs. Only scales that are worth anything are jeweler's scales that measure to at least .005 gram, and better yet, .001 gram. Then you will get accurate grain weights, provided there are no drafts or flourescent lights around. With .001 gram sensitivity scales, you need a cover over the pan to keep the drafts from making the weight constantly fluctuate.

To my knowledge, none of those dispenser/weighing combo deals have anything but .01 gram and 0.1 grain sensitivity.

[Seismic Sam]

And here's math on the bad news about scales that have .01 gram and 0.1 grain accuracy: http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17024&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

And it's a DOUBLE whammy. Scales like that cannot represent even 50% of the possible 0.1 grain weights, and the error flip-flops up and down in predicatable patterns, but you will NEVER be able to figure out where you are in the pattern.

[steve4102]

To sum up quickly, ANY electronic scale with a precision of .01 gram or 0.1 grain is JUNK!! Don't buy it!!

Does this include all balance beam scales, mechanical powder measures and progressive presses? None of these powder measuring devices can consistently measure all powders to the .05 grain. Should we not buy any of these as well? Nothing in the "reloading" world measures powder to the .05gr and there is no reason there should be.

[Rodentman]

Personally I can't answer that, but Sam probably will. IMHO I have moved, as I said, to the 3BR powder thrower and 1010 scale to check every fifth load, roughly. With the exception of Trail Boss I find it measures sufficiently accurately and is faster than the Lyman. Also, since I don't load full out max loads, I am not gonna worry about 0.1 grain or even 0.2 grain.

However, when I am testing new stuff, like my current project, the 500 mag, I weigh each charge very carefully. If I am happy with the result, and it shows no signs of over-pressure, leading, etc I mark the load in my book and consider it usable.

[OldmanFCSA]

I want to get a Powder Dispenser/Scale combo and am looking for some personal reviews if anyone has any experience with the three major brands. The RCBS Chargemaster, Lyman DPS 3, and Hornady Lock-n-Load Auto Charge are the units I am considering. I am not much of a Kool Aid drinker so I don't care what color it is. I am interested in ease of use, reliablility, accuracy, consistancy...etc... The RCBS is the most expensive with the Hornady close to $100.00 less and the Lyman somewhere in between. Thanks in advance for any input you can provide.

As you can see, there is a big difference in opinion on the use of electronic dispensers and scales.

For my loadings, plus or minus 0.2 grains of powder doesn't make much difference until I drop down to the more conventional rounds, then I use an expensive Denver Instruments scale or a standard balance beam scale to verify the charge dropping out of my powder dumps. Different powder types vary on the accuracy of dumped charges. You need to experiment as to what meets your needs.

I will say that I use a second electronic scale of different manufacture to verify the dump from the RCBS or ISD unit. If the two scales do not match within plus or minus 0.1 grains, it gets dumped back and we try again.

My opinion - if you are loading rifle cartridges, buy one. If you are loading pistol rounds, don't. Pistol charges are low in volume and greatly affected by the rounding error in electronic scales.

The END

Ok SAM - your turn ...................................

[samginko]

RCBS chargemaster combo is the highest rated, if your shooting ability is so high that you can take advantage of a jeweler's scale than you should use that. But, most people do not have that kind of skill level. I remember reading in a book about how the manufacturers purposely mix the power, so that it would produce consistent results even when the measuring device is not so precise. But, I am certain that shooters who measure each brass, bullets, coal, uniform everything, will benefit from such precision.

[Seismic Sam]

To sum up quickly, ANY electronic scale with a precision of .01 gram or 0.1 grain is JUNK!! Don't buy it!!

Does this include all balance beam scales, mechanical powder measures and progressive presses? None of these powder measuring devices can consistently measure all powders to the .05 grain. Should we not buy any of these as well? Nothing in the "reloading" world measures powder to the .05gr and there is no reason there should be.

To address the seperate questions, for balance beam scales there is no funky digital round-off error. When you dump a charge, and the pointer next to the scale at the end of the beam swings up and down equivalent ammounts, then the charge is dead nuts on. And I've verified that by checking the weights with a Mettler lab balance that's good to .001 gram. And for electronic scales, that's ONLY the round off error. Got an $85 Cabela's electronic scale with a plastic pan, and it has a villanous drift in it, so you have to re-zero the scale every time just before you dump the powder. Plus the plastic pan adds a huge amount of static to the system, which buggers up everything. Swapping to a metal pan will make a HUGE difference.

Powder measures: Their accuracy depends on the powder depth in the main hopper, and unless the measure is one of those rare Belding and Mull dual chamber measures, the charge weight will decrease as the hopper gets empty. In addition, the construction of powder measures can affect how different powders flow, and how accurate the charge is. For small ball powders likw W231, a $200 Harrell measure is a pure joy to use rather than a Lee Perfect Powder measure, which with small ball powders will get very stiff and gritty, and also leak powder out the back side of the measure, and the Harrell measure is more accurate, once again checked against a Mettler lab balance. For medium powders, it's kind of a toss-up, and for big powders like Retumbo the Lee measure is actually a bit better that the Harrell, which tends to jerk when it trys to cut a Retumbo grain in half.

For very large broken sheet powders like Alcan 8, NO measure can be relied upon to throw consistent weights. There are too many ways that the powder can bridge or not bridge in the measure, so you have to load 50 in a block and check the powder depth in all cases to make sure there isn't a short shot in there somewhere, or weigh each charge, which will generally drive you nuts with this kind of powder.

And finally, besides static and flourescent lights which can bugger up an electronic measure, PLUS the inherent round-off error, there could be OTHER errors in there in the programming that you can never find out about. You think the nerds with Coke bottle glasses in Tiawan who write the microcode for electronic balances even know what substances are weighed in grains, much less the vital importance of that measurement? No way in hell. With my Mettler, it always comes up from below the final weight, zeroes in on the final reading, and stops. With a cheap electronic balance, the readout will fluctuate up and down around a center point, and it's pretty obvious that the microcode is playing a game of ennie-meenie-miney-mo trying to figure out a digital value based on 2 or 3 choices, which is anything but confidence inspiring when you're watching it trying to make the right "guess".

[Bulldawg]

You can go to say Midways site and look each one up and read the user reviews on each one. But it seems like they all pretty much all have the same problems according to the reviews.
So, basically it is almost a crap shoot.

This is what I had done prior to the op...Seems that the electronic scales/dispensers have a lot of the same issues. They also have better reviews than many of the other scales including beams. I don't always put a lot of stock in online retailers reviews, you just never know who is posting them and what the motive for the rating may be.



Thanks for the info guys...Looks like I need to do some more research and reevaluate my plan.

[OldmanFCSA]

You can go to say Midways site and look each one up and read the user reviews on each one. But it seems like they all pretty much all have the same problems according to the reviews.
So, basically it is almost a crap shoot.

This is what I had done prior to the op...Seems that the electronic scales/dispensers have a lot of the same issues. They also have better reviews than many of the other scales including beams. I don't always put a lot of stock in online retailers reviews, you just never know who is posting them and what the motive for the rating may be.



Thanks for the info guys...Looks like I need to do some more research and reevaluate my plan.

You are welcome to try either of mine - at my place.

[Bulldawg]

You are welcome to try either of mine - at my place.

I appreciate the offer and I may have to take you up on it before this is all said and done.