Plum Crazy Lowers

[BigJnMn]

I would Imagine one made from Play-Doh would work for a while.

And rice paper would work for a while as a condom but I'm not going to try it.

[forcefed]

I don't ever imagine a scenario where I would buy one of these. You can't just substitute materials and expect any kind of quality. AR lowers are designed around a specific material. The reason why Glock and other polymer pistol work is because they were designed to be made with polymer. I would not trust one of these things with anything bigger that a .22 upper.

Then don't buy one. The technology in plastics has come sooooo far. These things aren't made from the same plastic your Big-Wheel tires were made out of.

[gyrfalcon]

aren't these related to Hesse? or whatever they have become now?

They don't appear to be......

The only relation they might have is that the hacks at Hesse/Vulcan/etc might resell them. It's too bad Hesse hasn't been banned from all the Minnesota gun shows. I wouldn't trust them to inflate a tire on my car let alone make, assemble or otherwise handle firearms.

[engnerdan]

I don't ever imagine a scenario where I would buy one of these. You can't just substitute materials and expect any kind of quality. AR lowers are designed around a specific material. The reason why Glock and other polymer pistol work is because they were designed to be made with polymer. I would not trust one of these things with anything bigger that a .22 upper.

I think there is a nice picture floating around on ar15.com of one of these lowers cracked in half.

Save up the money and get something proven and reliable.

I would use one, without having one in hand to compare to the aluminum version who is to say they did not beef it up where they needed to? The plastics used in polymer pistols are top notch and can product results very close to metal parts. If the part was designed to be a polymer part from the start, that would be great but I do not think there is much to worry about with these in normal applications.

Don't put one on your 50 Beowulf or 458 socom. But rock it out with 5.56, 300 blackout, 22LR.

[FJ540]

Uh, what exactly is there to worry about with a plastic lower? The buffer tube is the only part of the lower that sees any semblance of stress, and that's very linear and well controlled with a long soft spring and weighted damper.

7075 is spec'd for the original design, because it needed to withstand being used as a club - that's the simple truth of it. The forces applied to the lower during semi-auto shooting could be handled with paper machete if it could be kept dry and made strong enough to handle the hammer spring (which plastic can easily do).


Keep in mind, the bolt is locked to the barrel lug until the bullet is almost out of the barrel - it might as well be a bolt action gun until the bolt unlocks, but then all the recoil is sent straight back into the buffer and recoil spring, effectively bypassing the lower.

[BigJnMn]

who is to say they did not beef it up where they needed to?

So you don't know? Wouldn't you want to know before getting one and not just assume they did?

Polymer pistols were DESIGNED to use polymer. Glock didn't just take a metal frame one day and simply make it out of plastic. A lot of R&D went into it. If you want a plastic gun get one that was designed to use plastic. There are a few battle riffles out that are plastic.

I don't need to stick a fork in the wall socket to understand the effects of electricity on the human body. But hey, some people do.

In the end, it's your money and if you're using one of these as an HD gun, your life that's on the line. So have fun with it and shoot the **** out of it.

Take a look here on page two and tell me if a forged lower would ever do that.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=98731

[yuppiejr]

Another option:

http://newfrontierarmory.com/catalog/in ... s_id=34089

$99 complete poly lower from New Frontier Armory.

[yuppiejr]

Save up the money and get something proven and reliable.

Like an AK?

I love the forum commando types who wander in, have never touched/worked with a product and then spout FUD about how badly it sucks versus the $xxxx part THEY purchased just to have internet bragging rights.

A few moments and some Google reveal the Plum Crazy and most other poly AR lowers are, indeed, reinforced at specific points where the material needs extra strength. For a budget range toy or lightweight hunting build they seem to serve their purpose. There are plenty of aluminum AR15 lowers out there with JB-Welded trigger guard ears, cracked buffer tube rings and trigger/hammer pin holes that have ovaled out over time because of shortcomings in the design/material.

[Shipyard]

there are now plastics out there that can match or exceed the tensile strength and regidity of stainless steel. it's all about design and process control.

the plastic lowers are not a mirror of the aluminum versions - and even if they were - if you spec a material correctly and process it under controlled conditions to a validated output you will acheive the results you are specifying in a repeatable manner.

dat there is engineering 101 - but, it don't take no fancy colledge boy to point out dat a bizzznass dat put out crappy stuffs don't be around for all dat long; one would a reckon dat dey put some thinkin' into that there kajigger befo dey sells it.

long story short - the internet is a great reputation multiplyer. the fact that there isn't torch carrying mobs out there burning them in the streets is an indicator that for a non defense set up they're isnt' a damn thing wrong with the product... FWIW...

[farmerj]

been an interesting subject to follow.

While I would run from a Hesse (or what it's become), I doubt I would turn a Plum Crazy lower down for the right price. So far, I haven't seen the right price for me for less then $10 worth of plastic components knowing that molds are often into the 6 figure price range.

[BigJnMn]

I love the forum commando types who wander in, have never touched/worked with a product and then spout FUD about how badly it sucks versus the $xxxx part THEY purchased just to have internet bragging rights.

Not an internet commando in the least and Ive been a lurker for a little while. Does every thread need to have a consensuses? Can there be no alternative opinion? I'm also not concerned with the money I spend vs. the money someone else might spend. It's your money, do what you want with it. If the OP was showing off his new Plum Crazy AR I'd of said Nice! Shoot the heck out of it and have fun. But he was asking about what people thought of them vis a vis an opinion. And I don't think one has to be familiar with a product to have an opinion. I've never worn a speedo but that doesn't mean I can't have the opinion that I don't ever want to wear a speedo.

the internet is a great reputation multiplyer. the fact that there isn't torch carrying mobs out there burning them in the streets is an indicator that for a non defense set up they're isnt' a damn thing wrong with the product... FWIW...

There are plenty of gun manufactures out there that have or have had a reputation for making a lot of junk and are still around. Taurus and Kimber come to my mind. So reputation doesn't always sink you.

Look, it all boils down to what you want to do with the AR, where you're going to spend the money and where you're going to save the money. I ran across a say, "AR's aren't cheap and cheap ARs end up costing you more in the long run" or something like that. I know that has been my experience in general being a gun owner. In the end, however, have fun with whatever you end up getting and shoot the heck out of it.

[yuppiejr]

I love the forum commando types who wander in, have never touched/worked with a product and then spout FUD about how badly it sucks versus the $xxxx part THEY purchased just to have internet bragging rights.

Not an internet commando in the least and Ive been a lurker for a little while. Does every thread need to have a consensuses? Can there be no alternative opinion? I'm also not concerned with the money I spend vs. the money someone else might spend. It's your money, do what you want with it. If the OP was showing off his new Plum Crazy AR I'd of said Nice! Shoot the heck out of it and have fun. But he was asking about what people thought of them vis a vis an opinion. And I don't think one has to be familiar with a product to have an opinion. I've never worn a speedo but that doesn't mean I can't have the opinion that I don't ever want to wear a speedo.

If you re-read the original post:

"I'd like to hear from folks that have some experience with these."

[BigJnMn]

If you re-read the original post:

"I'd like to hear from folks that have some experience with these."

Are you sure that wasn't added later? Alright, alright. I didn't see that so I apologize for jumping in the thread. I wouldn't have commented had I noticed the caveat.

[SleepingJake]

While I've never actually shot one I have held one. There is a noticeable difference in weight between that and a forged lower. I also noticed that the lower that I had a different texture to it. It felt like I was gripping construction paper, interesting. Personally I wouldn't buy one because I feel like there is too much force on the trigger pins and the threading on the buffer tube and the threading for it on the lower. Polymer has gone an incredibly long way but I wouldn't be willing to purchase one for an AR lower. I think the amount of hassle it would be to send one back would be well worth the extra $80 it would cost to buy a complete RRA lower.

[Squib Joe]

Take a look here on page two and tell me if a forged lower would ever do that. http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=98731

Yes, an out-of-battery ignition could do that to a forged lower as well.