Need help/opinions/advice

[Troops2990]

Any key-holing?

Make sure nothing's loose, try multiple brands of ammo, and post pics of your targets for analysis.
Oh, an dial back on that magnification! Even if it's not an issue of POI changing with magnification, or the plethora of other issues that low-end variable power scopes have - Too much magnification is a bad thing. If you can see your target, you're dialed in more than enough.

I have zero key holing and everything I can check is tight. Tomorrow if time allows I plan on going out to try some of the ideas above. I am going to dial back the magnification alittle and shoot my .308 (with a much better scope) at the same time and same distances to make sure it's not operator error. I also picked up some factory ammo today so i'll try that along with my reloads to see how they compare. I will post the photos of the targets, hopefully tomorrow night. If I don't go tomorrow i'll for sure be out early next week.
Thanks for all the ideas and i'll keep you guys posted.

[Troops2990]

So I went out shooting today. I shot my 308 and 223 from the same spot, I had the zoom at 15x on the 223 and didn't change it when I went from 100 to 200 yards. I also fired both factory and my reloads to compare the two. My 223 was fired from a bi-pod and the 308 was on sand bags. After I was done today I came to a conclusion that 1 or 2 things happened last time I went out (when my bullets were going everywhere @ 200 yrds). Option #1 is that once I went out to 200 yrds I became an idiot and forgot how to shoot, thus making my bullets fly into a 3 foot group OR option #2 is that I didn't forget how to shoot and the plot thickens...
This photo is of the bullets I fired today. The one on the far left is a factory bullet (from the box next to it), the one in the middle is my reload (same bullet I shot the first day that they were off at 200 yrds, and bullet #3 is my .308 reload FMJ.

This photo is of 5 rounds fired at 100 yards of the factory ammo. (each square on the target = 1 square inch)

This photo is of 5 rounds fired at 100 yards of my reloaded ammo.

This photo is of 5 rounds fired from my 308 at 100 yards (reloads)-Obviously I shoot my 223 better than my 308

Then I move out to 200 yards- not changing a single thing except for moving the target back.
This photo shows 5 rounds of factory ammo and 5 rounds of reloads at 200 yards. Reloads are the top group and factory is the bottom group.

This one is of 4 rounds of 308 at 200 yards (10 1/2x zoom)-Again.. I need more practice with the 308..

Then for fun I turned up the scope on the 223 to 22x zoom to see if that would change anything and here are the results of 10 rounds (2 in the same hole) at 200 yards. It seems that here my group is a lot larger than the five rounds that were fired at 200 yards with 15x zoom (2 photos up).

So there it is.. I don't know what the deal was the day that I was so far off at 200 yards and now today I'm able to get a group of roughly 1.5 inches at 200 yards with my reloads (except for when I turn the zoom up). Being the day that I was so far off at 200 yards, my shooting at 100 yards was comparable to today's.
Tell me what your thinking..
Thanks for taking the time to look at my photo gallery.

[AFTERMATH]

Well someone having a bad day at the range, wouldn't be unheard of...
Unless it was two different batches of reloads, I'm gonna have to say it was you the other day.
(The only other equipment/ammo related cause I can think of right now clean bore to dirty bore, if you're cleaning between each trip... But with the amount you're shooting, it's highly unlikely)

Here's what I'm seeing. You're pretty consistent at throwing a couple fliers with each group.
Are you calling any of those shots off? If so, what did you do throw the shot off?

Chances are, whatever's causing you to throw those fliers is being amplified with magnification.
The more you zoom in, the more you see those tiny movements and vibrations that you cannot eliminate, you are human after all - At least I think you are.
Anyway, perfect is the enemy of good enough. The more you try to make sure your cross hairs are perfectly aligned, and perfectly still, the more likely you are to subconsciously neglect proper trigger control and/or induce flinching errors caused by anticipating the shot. Also, being able to see so much target will take your focus away from the reticle where it should be. That'll cause your group to open up to more of a shotgun pattern.
I guess I've never been behind a scope more than 9x - but I'm thinking, that even 15x seems too much...

Anyway, to boil it all down...
Dial back on the magnification, focus on the reticle, work on trigger control, and make sure you're maintaining a consistent cheek-weld...
And practice dry-firing. Though, I might add that depending upon what your objective is - being able to maintain 1moa groups isn't bad.
Personally, I'd either; take that skill to further ranges and get my dope out as far as the rifle can take it, or, transition to field positions and work on those.

I've never been in the race for the most precise ammo/rifle combination possible - All I need is enough accuracy to get the job done consistently - every time.


Happy shootin'!

[GunGoogler]

Any difference in conditions between the two shoots? IIRC, the "bad" day was really windy, which is pronounced as you move out in range; although 200 yards isn't very far. Any differences in humidity or anything like that? How about a difference in mood?

[Troops2990]

Well someone having a bad day at the range, wouldn't be unheard of...
Unless it was two different batches of reloads, I'm gonna have to say it was you the other day.
(The only other equipment/ammo related cause I can think of right now clean bore to dirty bore, if you're cleaning between each trip... But with the amount you're shooting, it's highly unlikely)

Here's what I'm seeing. You're pretty consistent at throwing a couple fliers with each group.
Are you calling any of those shots off? If so, what did you do throw the shot off?

Chances are, whatever's causing you to throw those fliers is being amplified with magnification.
The more you zoom in, the more you see those tiny movements and vibrations that you cannot eliminate, you are human after all - At least I think you are.
Anyway, perfect is the enemy of good enough. The more you try to make sure your cross hairs are perfectly aligned, and perfectly still, the more likely you are to subconsciously neglect proper trigger control and/or induce flinching errors caused by anticipating the shot. Also, being able to see so much target will take your focus away from the reticle where it should be. That'll cause your group to open up to more of a shotgun pattern.
I guess I've never been behind a scope more than 9x - but I'm thinking, that even 15x seems too much...

Anyway, to boil it all down...
Dial back on the magnification, focus on the reticle, work on trigger control, and make sure you're maintaining a consistent cheek-weld...
And practice dry-firing. Though, I might add that depending upon what your objective is - being able to maintain 1moa groups isn't bad.
Personally, I'd either; take that skill to further ranges and get my dope out as far as the rifle can take it, or, transition to field positions and work on those.

I've never been in the race for the most precise ammo/rifle combination possible - All I need is enough accuracy to get the job done consistently - every time.


Happy shootin'!

thanks for the tips, i'll have to give some of them a try. Im thinking it probably was just me that day that was off but I was still shooting good groups at 100 yards that day.. oh well, Im hoping it was me and not something wrong with the rifle. As far as the reloads go, they were all the same powder and amount and the bullets came from the same box so that shouldn't be an issue.
As far as the drifters go, on the 308 I could tell that a few were going to be off right before the trigger broke, and they were off a bit from me moving. For the ones on the 223, I didn't notice myself pulling one direction or the other like I did with the 308 a few times, do you think it could be a cold bore issue that was causing the first round to be a tad off, since I would fire 5 rounds and then the rifle would sit for 10-15 minutes while I walked up to the target and back?

Any difference in conditions between the two shoots? IIRC, the "bad" day was really windy, which is pronounced as you move out in range; although 200 yards isn't very far. Any differences in humidity or anything like that? How about a difference in mood?

The first day was really windy (about 25-30 MPH Gusts) and the second day was pretty calm with about 5 MPH wind. As far as humidity, I think they were probably both about the same, neither day felt real humid. The second day it was at 33% but I didn't check it on the first day. I'm pretty sure I was in the same mood both days I guess..except for at the end of the first day I was getting pretty peeved.