Stand your ground or murder? (Video of the event)

[Heffay]

If I run a stop sign and get plowed by a drunk driver and die as a result, part of that accident is my fault.

No it's all your fault. Lets say the driver wasn't intoxicated but rather didn't pay the tabs on his car. Is it still partially the other persons fault? They shouldn't have been driving with expired tabs.

Not paying your tabs doesn't affect your reaction time. In gun terms, the moment I got behind the wheel drunk, I became a willing participant in anything that happened to me after that.

[selurcspi]

The rule of thumb I go by and teach is:
If it's not worth dying for, then it's not worth killing for.
It may or may not be found to be justified, but it was avoidable.

My $.02

[mnmike59]

<<<<<<< Waits for the trolling from the OP. We all know it's coming, it's just a matter of when.

Jeopardy music in background.

[jdege]

The rule of thumb I go by and teach is:
If it's not worth dying for, then it's not worth killing for.
It may or may not be found to be justified, but it was avoidable.

My $.02

Absolutely agree. The shooting was in 2010. What do you suppose the last two years have been like, for him?

[Thunder71]

This wasn't the first time these neighbors have had issues and perhaps it was an adult version of him being bullied and this was the last straw. His comment "I'm not going to lose to you guys anymore" pretty much says it all.

He'd had enough and was going to stand up for himself once and for all, and someone was going to pay the price that night if he didn't 'win'.

[Holland&Holland]

If I run a stop sign and get plowed by a drunk driver and die as a result, part of that accident is my fault.

No it's all your fault. Lets say the driver wasn't intoxicated but rather didn't pay the tabs on his car. Is it still partially the other persons fault? They shouldn't have been driving with expired tabs.

You have some case law to support that? Typically fault is assigned as percentages. At lease those have been my experiances in accident situations.

[bulletproof]

Not paying your tabs doesn't affect your reaction time. In gun terms, the moment I got behind the wheel drunk, I became a willing participant in anything that happened to me after that.

You're fixated on this willing participant issue aren't you? Not paying your tabs affects your ability to legally operate a motor vehicle. Some drunk people could easily have reaction times which are much faster than your elderly driver that may not have had a drop to drink since you were born.

Duels used to be common in this country. There you had two willing participants and no crime as far as the law was concerned.

You have some case law to support that? Typically fault is assigned as percentages. At lease those have been my experiances (sic) in accident situations.

That's more of a civil matter. There is a ton of case law... Two drunk drivers hit each other, it can be proven one of them crossed over the median, etc.

[jdege]

That's more of a civil matter. There is a ton of case law... Two drunk drivers hit each other, it can be proven one of them crossed over the median, etc.

If two drunk drivers hit each other, they were both breaking the law, and both can be convicted, regardless of which of them crossed the median.

[bulletproof]

That's more of a civil matter. There is a ton of case law... Two drunk drivers hit each other, it can be proven one of them crossed over the median, etc.

If two drunk drivers hit each other, they were both breaking the law, and both can be convicted, regardless of which of them crossed the median.

Convicted of drunk driving of course, but one could be facing manslaughter or other such criminal charges. People don't get convicted of 20% 1st degree murder if you understand what I'm saying.

[Thunder71]

Where'd the thread about the guy who shot someone go?

[bulletproof]

Where'd the thread about the guy who shot someone go?

It's still here, and he actually shot THREE people from what I understand. He just managed to kill one of them.

[Heffay]

That's more of a civil matter. There is a ton of case law... Two drunk drivers hit each other, it can be proven one of them crossed over the median, etc.

If two drunk drivers hit each other, they were both breaking the law, and both can be convicted, regardless of which of them crossed the median.

Convicted of drunk driving of course, but one could be facing manslaughter or other such criminal charges. People don't get convicted of 20% 1st degree murder if you understand what I'm saying.

It doesn't have to add up to 100%.

2 drunk drivers, each with a passenger. They collide, drunk drivers survive, both passengers die. I believe they'll charge both drivers with 2 counts of manslaughter each.

There may be mitigating circumstances that affect your sentencing, but that's a separate issue.

In any event, an unwilling participant clause to stand your ground is probably a good idea. If you're going to go out and look for trouble, you lose the enhanced protections that stand your ground provides. You can still defend yourself, but you'll have to hope that your regular ol' self defense case is strong enough.

[bulletproof]

2 drunk drivers, each with a passenger. They collide, drunk drivers survive, both passengers die. I believe they'll charge both drivers with 2 counts of manslaughter each.

How is a drunk driver guilty of manslaughter simply by being drunk? There is an action which needs to take place to cause an accident.

[Heffay]

2 drunk drivers, each with a passenger. They collide, drunk drivers survive, both passengers die. I believe they'll charge both drivers with 2 counts of manslaughter each.

How is a drunk driver guilty of manslaughter simply by being drunk? There is an action which needs to take place to cause an accident.

Because the accident would have been avoidable if they weren't drunk.

[tman]

2 drunk drivers, each with a passenger. They collide, drunk drivers survive, both passengers die. I believe they'll charge both drivers with 2 counts of manslaughter each.

How is a drunk driver guilty of manslaughter simply by being drunk? There is an action which needs to take place to cause an accident.

Felony murder rule.

Heffay is right again.

Blow the stop sign and someone dies, YOU WILL BE CHARGED, no matter what your state of inebriation, or lack of it, is. The level of offense will be dependent on factors like intoxication, negligence and recklessness.