9mm major or .38 Super???

[RyanTV]

I am going to be buying an open gun for USPSA and I am wondering and looking for opinions on what caliber I should buy, 9mm Major or 38 Super? 9mm seems to be a lot riskier but you can use regular 9 brass but I seem to be able to find more info on .38 Super. Any opinions or suggestions would be great. Thanks

[Seismic Sam]

Hoo boy!!! You don't know what you just stepped in!! Assuming theoretically that there are some people in here who might know about 9mm Major loads and/or shoot them, what makes you think any rational handloader would want the legal liability of sharing that info with a complete stranger, particularly if you don't know how careful and experienced a handloader that stranger is?? Working up a 9mm Major load is a very dicey proposition, and even the people who have done it have wound up with a few spare gun parts.

So: How many years you been handloading?
What calibers do you reload?
Do you work up all your loads using a chrono?
How many reloading manuals do you own, and how many have you COMPLETELY read?

Now I'm going to back under my bridge and wait for the fun to start, and have a nice jacuzzi!!

BTW, I'm living under a bridge in Ediner these days - talk about posh digs!!

[crbutler]

9 Major is cheaper (not cheap, but cheaper) than 38 Super as far as reloaded ammo, and you can fire and forget your cases (especially at Oakdale for Sam to pick up...)

using one of the rimless 38 super variants is probably the most reliable way to go as far as an IPSC open gun. Some builders will not even mess with 9 major guns. You need to remember that with the comp and all that the actual functional barrel is likely shorter in an open gun than in a normal pistol, so you will have to dump even more powder in there to make major if your gun is set up that way. Remember that major competition loads are usually grains of powder more than published max loads in the manuals (why Sam is as curmudgeonly about it as he is.) Having said that, there are lost of folks doing fine with this stuff.

9 major will require you to tweak your loads a bit to get it so the gun works and you make power factor. Your mags will likely need extra tuning.

So, if you have a lot of reloading experience and some IPSC experience, a 9 major gun would make sense, as the ammo costs are the biggest part of the game. If you are a good brass retriever, the 38 super cases last several loadings, and it is a lot easier to make the gun work right.

Given you are even asking this question, go with the 38 super gun, preferably one of the rimless varieties (38 super comp, 9 super comp, 9x23, or 38 TJ.) The semi rimmed version works fine, but sometimes mag tuning is touchy, so using the rimless is a little easier, and usually you can use both in the same gun, but talk to your 'smith about that.

My open guns are 3 9x23 models, a 38 super, and a 9x25- I have not felt comfortable enough to get a 9 major one yet, because of the feeding problems I have seen, but there are about 6-8 guys running them locally. Most guys are running some stripe of 38 super.

[Retread1911]

I run a 9mm major gun but have no experience with any of the 38 super varieties. I bought 9 major when I first got into open and found a factory Trubor slightly used for a great price.

I have not had any feeding issues runs with all the mags I have used.

Load work up requires a chrono just like any other major load.

Loading 9mm with enough HS-6 to make major is far harder then the comparable super load.

Retread.

[user293]

I caught the open bug at the end of the 2010 season, and have been shooting it for a year. heres some stuff i picked up as i went along. open is not cheap. you looking at 2300 minimum for your gun alone, unless you find an awesome deal. dont forget about your belt setup, mags, reloading supplies, and whatnot. if you can handle all that, well awesome! i thought about going 9 major, until i saw a popular local shooter have two case blowouts in one match. I shoot a 38 supercomp case. it tough, and the small rim allows for one extra round in my mags, the reliability of feeding, and extraction is awwesome. if you really wanna go 9major head over to brian enos forums and do some reading. a bunch of info on that site about open, and USPSA. also 9 major and 38 super info. id check out grundhausergunworks.com too. paul built my gun, and it runs like a top. he will build you a super too, whatever you want. be wary about buying used guns, unless its from a competent smith. welcome to the dark side. we have cookies, and its alot of fun let me know if you have any questions about gear and other stuff.

Luke

[user293]

I run a 9mm major gun but have no experience with any of the 38 super varieties. I bought 9 major when I first got into open and found a factory Trubor slightly used for a great price.

I have not had any feeding issues runs with all the mags I have used.

Load work up requires a chrono just like any other major load.

Loading 9mm with enough HS-6 to make major is far harder then the comparable super load.

Retread.

lots of people running hs-6 with a 115 to make major. its flat shooting and works great with the trubor comp.

[RyanTV]

Hoo boy!!! You don't know what you just stepped in!! Assuming theoretically that there are some people in here who might know about 9mm Major loads and/or shoot them, what makes you think any rational handloader would want the legal liability of sharing that info with a complete stranger, particularly if you don't know how careful and experienced a handloader that stranger is?? Working up a 9mm Major load is a very dicey proposition, and even the people who have done it have wound up with a few spare gun parts.

So: How many years you been handloading?
What calibers do you reload?
Do you work up all your loads using a chrono?
How many reloading manuals do you own, and how many have you COMPLETELY read?

Now I'm going to back under my bridge and wait for the fun to start, and have a nice jacuzzi!!

BTW, I'm living under a bridge in Ediner these days - talk about posh digs!!

I am not asking for info just an opinion, so there is no reason to jump on me right away.
Years handloading: .0027
Calibers: mostly 22WMR and .17 HMR
Work up w/ Chrono: no just hope my crack scale is working well enough
Reloading manuals read: none I just figured whatever I read of MNGuntalk is the word of Allah and go off that.

Again, all I was asking for was an opinion not for some know it all but jump down my throat. Thanks for your info though.....

[mmcnx2]

I've stepped away form the sport for 2 years due to work, but I ran 38super and was very happy with it. At the time Brazo recommneded 38 over 9. His contentiion was other than brass cost, 9 offered no advantge and was much harder to get to major and did not run as reliable.

Open can be very expensive, while used guns are out there, seach carefully. Many have not been well cared for or are for sale becuase they don't run. One thing to remeber about using 9 brass..Guys say pick up range brass and leave it. Well that sound great until you find out you are picking up some other major 9 guys brass that has been stressed. I bought all new 38+P brass, mark it and pick it up. I know what goes in my gun and have never had ammo issues. In the years that I've shot, the 9 guys seemed to run the edge a little more than the 38 guys. It has been a few years maybe that has changed.

I'm a low risk guy, especially with ammo so 38 is where I'd suggest.

[Seismic Sam]

Well, we get everything in here, including novice reloaders who ask questions just like yours and are ready to start reloading stuff later that day. FWIW, what I gave you was a pretty standard answer for the question you asked, and I pretty much got the same answer I gave you, although due to the lack of published data, I already had a suspicion that 9mm Major was like talking about fight club. So you might as well wake up and smell the coffee, because when you start asking questions about going completely off the map as far charge weights are concerned, people simply won't talk to a stanger they don't know.

As far as 9mm Major is concerned, the only reason to go this route is the cost of the case, because 9mm brass is dirt cheap while all the 38 Super stuff is much more expensive and also hard to get sometimes. I do know a guy who shoots 9mm Major, and he uses blue die ink to mark his case heads so nobody else will pick them up. In addition, he only uses a 9mm case ONCE.

As far as 38 Super is concerned, there is the original 38 Super case with it's tiny little rim that made for very poor headspacing an accuracy, and so this caliber languished for decades in the Colt line of 1911 pistols. Finally the IPSC and other leagues started realizing the potential of this case to make Major in the 80's, barrels were made that headspaced on the case mouth like they should have from the beginning, and the secret cult of loading 38 Super to Major was born. Finally some decent rimless brass came along, and it's either 38 Supercomp or 9x23 Supercomp. It's pricey, but it gets rid of that silly rim and some feeding issues. Lastly, there is the 9x23 Winchester, which is another full step up, and it is NOT equivalent to the 9x23 Supercomp, despite the fact that one on-line component supplier says that they ARE the same. The fact is that the 9x23 Winchester has 25% more brass in it than a 9x23 Supercomp, and is actually a cut down and reamed .223 case, and uses small rifle primers. The case happily runs at 52,000 PSI, and doesn't even require a ramped barrel to do this. It will put a 125 grain 9mm bullet out the front at 1450 FPS, which makes it equivalent to the 357 Sig and the 357 Mag straight up.

So there you have it, and you can do whatever you feel like, but get used to the fact that a lot of people won't give you the time of day on 9mm Major or the other calibers unless you prove to them you know what you're doing.

[T.P.F.K.A.M]

he lives in Ediner these days..............talk about having your cake and eating it

[Seismic Sam]

Well, I don't 'live" in Ediner, I just sometimes hide under one of their posh luxury bridges for a change of scenery. When I'm in a ghetto mood and drinkin' Night Train, THE spot to be is under the West End of the Broadway bridge over the Mississippi on the near North side. More often than not, Shippy will already be there with a sissy-foah of malt liquor and some awful gansta gat.

Oh, and as far as the 9x23 Winchester is concerned, VV3N37 is THE powder for this round, and my velocity SD's are only 6 FPS!! I have an EAA Match in 38 Super that was made in the last couple of years, so it's set up for the competition crowd and the chamber holds 9x23 rimless cases very well. The felt recoil is MUCH less than a Sig P226 in 357 Sig (because the EAA sits so much lower in your hand), and it holds 17+1 and feeds impeccably right out of the box. It's a real tack driver, and as an 18 shot 357 Magnum equivalent running 125 grain Gold Dots, it's one hell of a potent self defense gun.

[RyanTV]

OK, well let me start this over. If you were to buy an open class gun what caliber would you buy????

[rugersol]

OK, well let me start this over. If you were to buy an open class gun what caliber would you buy????

9mm ... not a lotta matches ya get a lotta brass back!

Take a look at the scores off uspsa.org ... only a couple guys shootin' Open here 'n there ... and they're either scrambling on the ground right after they shoot, or they can afford to replace with new brass.

If you're ok with that, it sounds like .38 SC 'er such is the way to go!

I went from .45 to .40 in Single Stack ... 'cause I ain't!

If it came down to it, I'd be ok shootin' Open Minor ... 'til you're a "A" 'er so, you're gonna get whooped anyhow ... may as well save some cash! Maybe with the cash ya save, ya can afford to fit a new .38 SC bbl, someday?

As it is, if Warner can make Major in a G17 mag, I can't believe I can't make it in a .38 Super mag!

However, it ain't my $3,000+!

[user293]

9 major works fine, theres factors that come in to play. You need gun and mags that run well. You need to make sure your reloads are high quality. You need a setup thats practical. Hop on the enos forum and read up. Theres not alot of open division shooters on this board, so u may not get the help you desire. Theres plenty on there.

[Retread1911]

OK, well let me start this over. If you were to buy an open class gun what caliber would you buy????

Just getting into open I bought 9mm major. I have a lead on a used 38 super Comp with a pale of brass that frankly if I had the cash I would buy. So two offers. 1 meet me at BPR one day an shoot the Trubor. We just converted to a 90 degree mount so there is even that to try as well. 2 drop me a PM and I can get you the number for the guy with the Super Comp. assuming you have the cash I am almost positive he would let you shoot it before the transaction.