Input on red dot vs holographic for Personal Carry

[dsm2nr]

Did I not just say pick your battles? As in, pick what ever makes sense to you?

You guys take my logic past the extent of reasonable, you're taking it to where it's ridiculous. When it's, in fact, not what I said.

[mn_smokeater]

My take is this: uh how? I will be running into issues with getting a holster for a gun with a light, how are you going to get a gun with a sight like that on you, and not break it?

[TTS]

My take is this: uh how? I will be running into issues with getting a holster for a gun with a light, how are you going to get a gun with a sight like that on you, and not break it?

It fits most normal holsters...

[Stradawhovious]

#1, sights are overrated.


#2 it's my opinion that relying on an active sight for personal protection is asking for trouble in the form of a dead battery when you need it most.

#3, do whatever makes you feel comfortable.

[mn_smokeater]

My take is this: uh how? I will be running into issues with getting a holster for a gun with a light, how are you going to get a gun with a sight like that on you, and not break it?

It fits most normal holsters...

Huh well learned something new today. I always though they was bigger then that.

[srtolly]

I thought sight picture was the key no matter the sight being used. After giving this some thought you would be better off learning to "point shoot". In a case of an attacker coming at you from 10 yds, even make it 20, are you going to have time to acquire a good sight picture, that's of you can get your firearm out of your holster that fast.

This is from a retired USMC friend.
Using a timer, have a friend walk 15 yds then run the same. Take an average time. Now practice drawing from your daily carry equipment and obtaining a sight picture with any sight. Then try drawing and getting into a firing position and looking down the barrel and not worried about the sights.

I'm fortunate that I can practice live fire at home and am getting better at this. Whatever works best for you practice, and lots of it, will be the key.

Something to think about. I agree with Strad, sights are over rated.

[TTS]

#1, sights are overrated.


#2 it's my opinion that relying on an active sight for personal protection is asking for trouble in the form of a dead battery when you need it most.

#3, do whatever makes you feel comfortable.

#1 I agree that at close range sights are overrated.

#2 tell that to all the troops using Aimpoints, Eotechs and ACOGs... We have come a long way in small rugged electronics, and you should always have BUIS on a defensive firearm.

#3 if this were true I would wear nothing but boxers to work

[Paul]

#1, sights are overrated.


#2 it's my opinion that relying on an active sight for personal protection is asking for trouble in the form of a dead battery when you need it most.

#3, do whatever makes you feel comfortable.

#1 I agree that at close range sights are overrated.

#2 tell that to all the troops using Aimpoints, Eotechs and ACOGs... We have come a long way in small rugged electronics, and you should always have BUIS on a defensive firearm.

#3 if this were true I would wear nothing but boxers to work

To TTS:

#1: Agreed

#2: two completely different applications from what we are talking about. Not applicable.

[TTS]

Paul,

I am interested to know why you think the applications are all that different? Gunfights are gun fights, no?

I seem to remember this battle going on in the early days of the RDS sights on AR15's. Many people didn't believe they had a place on a combat firearm. I firmly believe that like with the combat rifle/carbine platform, RDS on pistols will be the norm in 10-15 years if not sooner. The battery life on the RMR is shorter but you can get a FO/Tritium one or replace the battery's once a year.

PS Can I borrow $800 to get one of the on my G19?

[Paul]

No, gunfights are not all the same. If you think the equipment need or weapon deployment for a permit holder and a soldier in a combat zone are the same, then there is no point in us discussing the topic.

[TTS]

No, gunfights are not all the same. If you think the equipment need or weapon deployment for a permit holder and a soldier in a combat zone are the same, then there is no point in us discussing the topic.

That isn't what I meant... I should have been more clear. When I say a gunfight is a gunfight I mean the same pillars of success are needed
1. Proper mindset
2. Ability to deliver quick accurate fire (RDS help in this area)
3. Ability to move an communicate
4. Ability to adapt, improvise and overcome

I assume that if a student were looking to use an AR for home defense that you would suggest/not discourage the use of a RDS?

The same things that make it beneficial on a carbine are what make it good on a pistol.
1. Easy to see in low light
2. Less to think about (sight alignment)
3. Faster and more precise as distance increases

BTW-
I did not ask the question to antagonize you, from what I have seen you know your stuff and are a great instructor, thus I want to have a dialogue to hash out ideas.

[Pat]

It would be far better if you took some course on combat handgunnery. Learn to use your front site to quickly acquire your target's COM.

[Stradawhovious]

The OP asked specifically about personal carry, not home defense ARs etc. and thats what my response was tailored to. Unless your everyday personal carry is an AR15, your argument is invalid. My personal opinion...... If you seriously thiink you need a holographic sight on a personal defense, every day carry pistol, you havent practiced enough.

Your opinion may differ.

[tazdevil]

I thought I saw someone else post this to a different thread, but it bears repeating. Think of it this way, 100's if not 1,000's spent on good RDS, competition gun etc. and you use it for carry, and a defense situation occurs. Say goodbye to that gun and sight etc. for a long time potentially. Even standard gun and a good RDS (100's, or 1000's spent on RDS), same thing. Couple hundred on good carry gun with good iron sights, and spend time practicing. That's at least how I view it, YMMV!

[srtolly]

Was I misunderstanding? I believe the OP referred to personal carry. In the example I gave for practice is not a combat situation and training is not the same as personal defence. I am prior USMC myself and RDS wasn't an option (in the 80s). Considering that in a combat situation the firearm is usually in your hands, a RDS is a great option. For concealed carry in the 10 to 20 yard range I don't think you have time, with a BG coming at you, to acquire a good sight picture with any sight. Not to mention the added bulk for concealment.

I am far from an expert but I try to think realistically. I have practiced the situation I listed from an open carry and that is difficult enough. I started shooting USPSA (I stink by the way) with a 1911 style firearm with combat sights and find that if I don't concentrate on the sights I shoot better. A timer is far different than a BG though.

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