Another story. Feel free to share

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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby jdege on Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:12 pm

Erud wrote:As dumb as the OP's story is, it was an accident, and hopefully will be learned from and not repeated.

Yep. I "accidentally"* killed myself, once, with a negligent discharge. And I've made damned sure to never do it again.

* I was using MILES gear at the time
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Another story. Feel free to share

Postby mzdadoc on Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:14 pm

Yes Paul that is it and very comfortable. It has 2 adjustments to make it deeper in my waste which I think would be better. I also need blue Loctite because the Allen screws that hold the clips do come loose.
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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby srtolly on Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:26 pm

I don't have my carry permit yet so I have no right to speak on the subject. I will say that I know kids (5 of my own and almost 6 grandkids). You can't predict what they are going to do at a gathering of people where more kids are around. They just decide to jump on you at times. Accidents can happen and it seems the op picked up his gear and left the area which seems the responsible thing to do in that situation. The situation could have been avoided by choosing not to carry during the gathering.

Dropping your pants to show off a tatoo knowing you are armed is irresponsible. No excuses there.

I will use this as a learning experience for when I do get my permit.

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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby Shipyard on Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:45 pm

Paul wrote:
mzdadoc wrote:You need your nose rearranged!!!!

Before you start making irrational threats to long standing members of the forum, why don't you step back and cool down for a while.


no ill intent taken - the internet lacks subtlety and context sometimes and i've given the benefit of the doubt. ho harm done.
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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby Shipyard on Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:26 pm

before i start going through you post piece by piece - i think it is important that you try and realize the perspective from which myself and several others are coming from. namely, that dumped guns around kids is not funny. what happened WAS a bad situation. one that could have easily been prevented yet could have just as easily had grave repercussions.

nothing in your original post came across as "humorous" - it came across as arrogant and read as if you were thumbing your nose at the basics of gun safety. THIS is the attitude that the anti-'s love to feed on. the image of the douche bag, it's not my responsibility oh whatever lackadaisical gun owner -public enemy #1... if you intend to make something humorous, it's probably a safe bet that it shouldn't involve children and a loose weapon. just sayin'...

it's been said before and i'll say it again - your post makes us look bad. whether that was your intention or not, you came across as arrogant and nonchalant about a dangerous situation. this is where it is typically stated to get off "my side" - which is taken to represent gun owners who make an effort to present themselves in the opposite way - which is humble, courteous and responsible. again, don't think it was your intent to be a jerk or blatantly bragging about being irresponsible - but this is the consequence you have presented here on a public internet forum.

remember - it is not just pro 2A gun nuts around here - this forum is no different than having a conversation on a public bus - anyone can be privy to what is said, AND it's documented in writing, possibly available forever. the internet is like peeing in a swimming pool and trying to get it back. good luck.

so something bad happened to you - you made a mistake. lick your wounds and move on. but you made the decision to post it in public and now your hurt when one one calls you on something they would readily interpret based upon YOUR description of the situation as negligent and dangerous. context is an interesting animal and you've now seen how others took you post.

from what i have seen here, from your personal attacks back against me i'm taking the impression that you are not only hot headed and either quite immature or you have poor written communication skills. i'll give you the benefit of the doubt. i hope this becomes more of a productive discussion than the borderline "dick in the wind" thread it is riding so dangerously close to.....

and now... something completely different:


Cobb my holster was a beretta IWB made and formed for the Nano. It is very much like a Crossbreed with metal strong sprung clips that went over my belt. I do appreciate the ones who suggested I get or try a better holster. I was under the impression that since is was made for my gun from the manufacturer in must be good. As far as making lite of it I am only because I can admit I'm not perfect. I was expecting intelligent people to maybe add their mistakes in a safe environment where there could be support and understanding but I was wrong. It fell out on accident get over it.


i don't think anyone was questioning if it was the holsters fault - my point was that the gun/holster rig was intentionally/unintentionally used as a foot hold for climbing. ANY tool - i don't care how reliable or well designed - will fail if used for a purpose it was not intended for and may cause injury. ever see someone try to use a knife as a prybar and end up with metal shards flying?

To shipyard get off your high horse and what is this "Side" you speak so highly???? I don't want to be there because you are so don't worry about me wanting to be "There"


the "side" that is usually referred to is people acting with their firearms in a responsible manner as opposed to gun owners who have poor attitudes towards safety/handling and give the gun community a poor image in the public eye.


So Shippy.... Can I call you Shippy????? The only man I know free of sin is just one and we won't go there.... A little hint it's NOT YOU!!!!! Do you drive a car or any other internally combustion engine operated vehicle? Prolly yes right? Have you ever gotten a ticket? Again I'm sure yes!!!


yes, you can call me shippy. everyone else does. thank you for asking. i would ask that you check your self-confidence: not that any of my personal business is YOUR business but my driving record is cleaner than a hungry man's plate at the end of dinner. and i don't see what jesus has to do with any of this. FWIW...

So to Shippy and anyone else on their high horse get over yourself I'm not perfect and either are YOU so when you sit at your computer pointing a finger focus on the three pointing at you because every time you point and judge with that pointed finger there will always be three pointed back at you!!!!!


again, check your arrogance. i called you on making a bad move and bragging about it. this is the internet - if you go asking for agreement or absolution be careful about what you get. it isn't always a warm hug.

I have no problem with your passion for carrying and gun sports in general as a matter of fact I applaud it but don't act holier then thou!!!! A mistake was made and yes I know I made it!!!! I'm 45 and you're not my dad so try to take it as it was intended which was simply "Boy I screwed up and felt like crap and awkward but thank God no one was hurt!" So I shared not to be scolded by you who seems to be perfect but to allow myself and others talk about the dumb things they've done where we can laugh now afterwords.....


first up - i didn't see you admitting you made a mistake or really taking any responsibility for the dangerous situation you allowed to occur. what i did hear was a lot of justifying, glossing over and then "am i right fellas???" also, i'm glad i'm not your dad, there's PLENTY of sanctimony dripping off your response and i hope the next holster you buy is certified acceptable by jymboree

If this was such a bad thing to post then the mediators should have deleted it right away!!!!


might still happen - IBTL anyways....
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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby forcefed on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:12 pm

:shock:
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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby XDM45 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:56 pm

@Shipyard Your post exemplifies the attitude of many on here, and I agree with it. Dead on the money. Bullseye.

Now I must tread lightly and self-censor or else I risk evoking the mighty ban hammer for saying what I really want to say and how I want to say it. Sadly, I doubt it would do any good..... and no, it doesn't even need to be swearing and vulgar language. Certainly nothing I say could be as vulgar as an unsafe attitude.

To say I'm passionate about this, is an understatement.

*THIS* is why I am:

1) Against gun ownership without training beforehand.
No, I don't think the government should mandate it, I think individuals should out of common sense, respect, and self-responsibility for self-government; however that's idealist because we know that people at large cannot self-govern themselves. Individuals may, and many individuals do, but clearly, some of them cannot...as we have seen here.

2) For more stringent training for PTC such as actually qualifying with the weapon you carry and not a .22LR. Likewise, I'm also for Defensive Atraining in Basic, Intermediate and Advanced levels. I'm for all sorts of training along with range time.

No, Defensive Training in and of itself would not have prevented this.
No, qualifying with your .45 vs. a .22LR wouldn't have prevented it either.

The thing those things have in common is Attitude. You can have all the skill in the world and have the wrong attitude and negligence will happen every time. This is why a large part of being in a triathlon, boot camp, many things, including gun ownership, is mental. It's attitude-based and attitude affects everything.

There is no tolerance with negligence and guns allowed. ESPECIALLY when one carries.

Scratch wrote:It was a small family party less than 15 probably, and 3 of them I shoot with regularly, all but 2 of the people there knew I had, carried and sold guns, so I'm sure it wasn't a huge surprise I was carrying. Plus I was asked to show the tattoo... I thought I would rather try to cover the gun while dropping trou, than say no and risk everyone making a bid deal of why I wouldn't show it.

Luckliy I carry at 3 o'clock, so my hand can cover most of it when I drop. Yes I'm immature... but it'll happen again. Someday I'll grow up... maybe.


That part in bold proves my point and why some people should not carry or even own guns. I am thoroughly disgusted. NOT amused. and offended. More over, people who have such an attitude are a danger to themselves and society at large. If someone is like this, please... stay away from me and my family.

MODS: If my post warrants a banning/reprimand (which has happened to me before), then I'm on the wrong message board. I'm trying to be civil here, and this place for the most part really is nice and civil, I love that about this place, so I will taper my opinion, but I won't silence it. THIS is just plain wrong. I come from a family of law enforcement and work closely with that area. I'm also an ardent supporter of rights, amendments, etc, but some things are just plain wrong....and this is one of them. As another poster said, it makes us ALL look bad.
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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby bstrawse on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:06 pm

No amount of training - government mandated, or otherwise, would have prevented this.
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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby XDM45 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:32 pm

bstrawse wrote:No amount of training - government mandated, or otherwise, would have prevented this.


I never said it would have prevented it. The point is that it's an attitude thing. Training only HELPS with that, it doesn't replace it or guarantee it. Same thing as IT, Medical, Law, all areas of expertise with extensive training --- and all areas which have mistakes made in them. No one is perfect, true that... but would you rather have someone with the right attitude and training defending you, operating on you, or managing your network? or would you rather have a guy that "says he can do it" ??

Most of boot cam is mental. Lots of physical, lots of training, but mostly mental. Same thing with the triathlon, etc. All what I said before. I hope no one things that strictly training would solve this issue, it wouldn't. It's the same reason why someone can inherent millions of dollars and end up broke.. It's not how much money they have, it's attitude. MANY things are like this. All sorts of examples. Point being, this was negligence.
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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby grousemaster on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:56 pm

bstrawse wrote:No amount of training - government mandated, or otherwise, would have prevented this.



Yep.

Also.....IBTL :D
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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby bstrawse on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:58 pm

XDM45 wrote:
bstrawse wrote:No amount of training - government mandated, or otherwise, would have prevented this.


I never said it would have prevented it. The point is that it's an attitude thing. Training only HELPS with that, it doesn't replace it or guarantee it. Same thing as IT, Medical, Law, all areas of expertise with extensive training --- and all areas which have mistakes made in them. No one is perfect, true that... but would you rather have someone with the right attitude and training defending you, operating on you, or managing your network? or would you rather have a guy that "says he can do it" ??

Most of boot cam is mental. Lots of physical, lots of training, but mostly mental. Same thing with the triathlon, etc. All what I said before. I hope no one things that strictly training would solve this issue, it wouldn't. It's the same reason why someone can inherent millions of dollars and end up broke.. It's not how much money they have, it's attitude. MANY things are like this. All sorts of examples. Point being, this was negligence.


We're talking about attitude here - not subject matter expertise.

I can train someone in my profession and make them a great subject matter expert - get them professionally certified and so on. What I can't do is make them smarter or change their attitude. I also can't help them take their responsibilities seriously.

This is no different.
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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby XDM45 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:08 pm

bstrawse wrote:
XDM45 wrote:
bstrawse wrote:No amount of training - government mandated, or otherwise, would have prevented this.


I never said it would have prevented it. The point is that it's an attitude thing. Training only HELPS with that, it doesn't replace it or guarantee it. Same thing as IT, Medical, Law, all areas of expertise with extensive training --- and all areas which have mistakes made in them. No one is perfect, true that... but would you rather have someone with the right attitude and training defending you, operating on you, or managing your network? or would you rather have a guy that "says he can do it" ??

Most of boot cam is mental. Lots of physical, lots of training, but mostly mental. Same thing with the triathlon, etc. All what I said before. I hope no one things that strictly training would solve this issue, it wouldn't. It's the same reason why someone can inherent millions of dollars and end up broke.. It's not how much money they have, it's attitude. MANY things are like this. All sorts of examples. Point being, this was negligence.


We're talking about attitude here - not subject matter expertise.

I can train someone in my profession and make them a great subject matter expert - get them professionally certified and so on. What I can't do is make them smarter or change their attitude. I also can't help them take their responsibilities seriously.

This is no different.


I agree that attitude is an internal thing, but that can be motivated by external forces sometimes, such as going through boot camp. Some people don't need it as much, and I think we are seeing and saying the same thing, but just from different angles and viewpoints is all.
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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby ironfoot on Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:30 am

Erud wrote:As dumb as the OP's story is, it was an accident, and hopefully will be learned from and not repeated. I must say however, that Scratch's story takes idiocy to a whole new level. Voluntarily exposing your weapon to a room full of people you may or may not know just so you can maintain your hard-earned reputation as "the moron who loves showing his awesome ass-tattoo to everyone anytime the word 'tattoo' is mentioned in public" seems beyond stupid.

While I firmly believe in and support the right to keep and bear arms, I also believe that it's a right that many people should voluntarily exclude themselves from exercising. Scratch, you sure sound like one of these folks. It comes with a lot of responsibility, and should not to be taken lightly.



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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby LarryFlew on Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:19 am

Scratch wrote:. Yes I'm immature... but it'll happen again. Someday I'll grow up... maybe.


As MEN we are required to grow old but we are NOT required to grow up!

injected levity
Last edited by LarryFlew on Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another story. Feel free to share

Postby Shipyard on Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:29 am

LarryFlew wrote:
Scratch wrote:. Yes I'm immature... but it'll happen again. Someday I'll grow up... maybe.


As MEN we are required to grow old but we are NOT required to grow up!



as MEN, CHILDREN and all the inbetween we are required to treat guns with respect and have reverence for the responsibility they DEMAND.


that being said - someone dustoff my beer bong - i feel like having an old school colledge bender tonight :P

sorry boss :lol:
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