2 teens killed after allegedly breaking into home;

[Thunder71]

Don't reply, he's trained to get the information he wants without you knowing you're giving it to him.

[goett047]

Cops get a 4 day break before they have to say anything. What are they hiding in that time? You don't say a person involved in a shooting might not be right in the head for a few days? How were the statements solicited? Did cop say "yo man I know you were ok to defend yourself, how exactly did you do it? Were they still alive?"

What if he had said drugged kids were tweaked out and were reaching into their pockets when he went to check on them?

The reported statement of drugged girl laughing at him so it made him mad and he vengefully offed her sounds pretty bad. Why would anyone say that? So what are the conditions that got that statement on the record?

Too many people look at things in black and white and accept Kare 11 news reports as unbiased. Day 1 omg poor kids with car broke down! day 3 tweaked out kids shopping on thanksgiving. Won't bend over backwards to defend him but I do have empathy for the impossible situation he is now in and the rush to judgement which has played out in the media.

Kare 11's own website has a less accusatory crowd of posters than here. http://www.kare11.com/news/article/9998 ... s-burglary

So I take it you condone his actions?

No, the **** should have kept his mouth shut.

[MasonK]

No, the **** should have kept his mouth shut.

I concur, but even CSI: Keystone Cops wouldn't have a tough time deducing that the scene had been tampered with, and that the shooter didn't somehow trip and accidentally put a shot through the girl's chin while trying to regain his balance.

But who knows, maybe with today's generation he'll get a young jury and a good lawyer and the closing argument will go something like this "...my client shot the intruder, after which they re-animated in a zombie-like state, and as we all know the only way to kill a zombie is to shoot them in the brain. After killing the intruder-turned-zombie, he still feared for his life because they might re-animate again! So he dragged the bodies to a location where he could keep a constant vigil over the bodies in case he needed to shoot them in the head again.

"As to why he didn't call the police? If zombies were in his house, it's conceivable that the police were busy fighting other zombies and he didn't want to pull critical resources when he already had the situation under control. Please, jury, think to yourselves what you would do if zombies broke into your house and vote to acquit."

That was hyperbole, for sure, but I'm going to armchair criminal-psychologist this one and say he fantasized about killing a criminal (specifically, not just anyone) and he enjoyed executing these two burglars. He didn't call the police so he could relive the moment as many times as he could because he'd never get another golden opportunity to kill again like this one and the bonus was not one, but two people, including a coup de grace shot.

[MasonK]

Or maybe he is crazy like a fox and knows exactly how to work the system. I got wind that he is a retired LEO that did international security. Anyone else know about such? A skill level of that caliber would change my POV.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/displa ... sts-spies/

Just read the article, and want to point out that 'Security Engineer' is very different from 'Marine Embassy Guard', 'Navy SEAL', or 'Ninja'.

For all we know he was an electrician that wired video cameras. As noted in the article: Security engineers oversee construction and repair work in U.S. embassies and consulates to prevent spies and terrorists from breaking into State Department buildings or installing secret recording devices, said retired U.S. State Department political officer William Davnie. Unlike security officers, who patrol embassy grounds and offer advice about personal safety to Americans living abroad, security engineers are focused on technical issues, such as building layout, wireless networks, locks and alarms.

Still not impressed, still not believing virtually anything he did was legal, ethical, or should be held up as a shining example of the triumph of personal protection.

[MN_MO]

As a gun guy and such......I agree with shooting intruders and killing them.......but I cannot see sticking a gun up under a 17 year old wounded girls chin and delivering a "kill shot" ......once the threats (intruders ) were nuetralized (on the ground, unarmed and shot already)...... This man should have called police. Execution style finishing shots are not self defense. ......these kids were definitely deserving of a homeowner shooting them and even using deadly force but once they are down and no longer a threat, self defense does not allow any further shots. .......that said, it's a sad case all around. I feel for the old man and the criminal kids. They might have killed the next victim tho.....Nobody wins.....I do not think there is a jury in the world that will convict this retired government servant of murder tho, given the circumstances that led up to this event and how it all went down. I would not do what he did but I would not send him to prison for life either.

my guess is that the girl's "laugh" may have been an involuntary type of response to being shot......similarly to mine, after nearly cutting my hand off with a table saw accident, I do remember laughing in the instant that I realized what had just happened. I know it wasn't funny and I was in excruciating pain but a laugh came out, without me even thinking about it....kinda sorta like a "boy, did I mess up" laugh......I don't know what a .223 shot to the midsection would do, pretty messy I bet. ....considering that a much smaller round from a ruger 10/22 will blow out the Mellon on a squirrel. .... Neither would be my first choice for home defense.... I am partial to the shotgun or .45 auto for home defense, ....I am baffled as to why this Smith had no security system or at least a barking dog to deter thieves ....that just seems odd, considering he is a retired security engineer for the government.

[MasonK]

I am baffled as to why this Smith had no security system or at least a barking dog to deter thieves ....that just seems odd, considering he is a retired security engineer for the government.

It wouldn't surprise me if he didn't keep his doors and windows unlocked to make an unlawful entry even easier. I'm sticking with my theory that he fantasied about it and took steps to make it easier for someone to get in. Nothing this guy did looks like he was interested in self-defense or defense of property. It looks like he was patiently waiting for someone -anyone- to come into his house so he could kill them with impunity.

[One Man Wolf Pack]

So I take it you condone his actions?

No. But i also don't condone trial by media.
Curious is that the police knew the victims were trouble with many priors, yet weren't at all sympathetic to him. If the criminals were black and not an attractive white girl would this story be circulating as sensationally as it is?

If I was a cop given the situation, it would be the right thing to do to say "hey bro this is preliminary but let me read you your rights." Cops coddling him and then hanging him with his statements seems a bit crappy and I hope mr Meshbesher is able to get such statements blocked or withdrawn.

That's another thing, how do all these details get leaked to the media? Lets hope they don't blame the victim if you are ever involved in a shooting. Very convenient for you all to judge him over a week which took seconds for him to act on.

I think they will try over charge him but his peers will let him walk once all the facts are presented. Barring a deal of course.

[texasprowler]

It is not the cops fault. They get paid to dig for information (one of you has been looking in my OIG files, shame on you).

Flip the coin, the guy in the orange suit intruded on a young mother with sleeping children. There is bias present and this will be a public lynching. Or not.

[tman]

If the criminals were black and not an attractive white girl would this story be circulating as sensationally as it is?

shame on you for injecting race into it. RACE has nothing to do with the murders.

If I was a cop given the situation, it would be the right thing to do to say "hey bro this is preliminary but let me read you your rights." Cops coddling him and then hanging him with his statements seems a bit crappy and I hope mr Meshbesher is able to get such statements blocked or withdrawn.

According to the copy of the criminal complaint that was made public (posted in this thread, too, I think), Smith was ARRESTED right away, brought to the police station, MIRANDIZED, then questioned. In that order. Isn't that enough for you?

Lets hope they don't blame the victim if you are ever involved in a shooting. Very convenient for you all to judge him over a week which took seconds for him to act on.

First, there are THREE victims here. The one still alive MAY have been the victim of a PROPERTY crime. Maybe not. We'll never truly know.

The other two appear to me to be homicide victims. Murder takes precedence over burglary in victim labeling.

Second, by his own admission, this event took MINUTES, not seconds from the time he shot the 17 year old, to the time he shot the other one.

[Heffay]

Second, by his own admission, this event took MINUTES, not seconds from the time he shot the 17 year old, to the time he shot the other one.

You're arguing against people who think this was a good shoot. I don't think applying logic and reason is going to help your argument with them.

[bstrawse]

Second, by his own admission, this event took MINUTES, not seconds from the time he shot the 17 year old, to the time he shot the other one.

You're arguing against people who think this was a good shoot. I don't think applying logic and reason is going to help your argument with them.

Exactly.
b

[grousemaster]

The assailants were executed after they were already incapacitated, right?

[sigsauersauce]

Personally, I don't call having intent to kill an already downed intruder (or assailant for that matter) self defense. I'm not arguing legality here, it just seems common sense (i.e. Reasonable, like what most of our laws depend on us to be) that if you've shot someone and they're laying on the ground, it is not a defensive move to approach them and put more shots into them. That seems like potentially opening yourself to possible harm by closing the distance between yourself and the intruder. Just my .02, but there it is.

[texasprowler]

You're arguing against people who think this was a good shoot. I don't think applying logic and reason is going to help your argument with them.

Nobody thinks this is a good shoot, if there is such a thing. We still haven't learned about the other four people involved.

Of interest to note: just as my comments here could be used against me, I wonder if the LEO comments would be useful in his appeal. Is the trial getting moved to your district?

[brent375hh]

It is always possible that the situation could have been the inverse had the home invaders panicked and made some judgment errors (in addition to being home invaders to start with) after being seen by an senior citizen who could identify them. Being armed might have saved the homeowners life.

I also think popular opinion would be different if the two home invaders where known gang members with violent pasts.

I feel sorry for the families of the two young people as well as the homeowner (and his family) who was forced to make some judgment calls that may have not been the best.