New Photo of George Zimmerman released

[Humphrey Bogart]

GZ Defense fund:
http://www.gzdefensefund.com/donate/

[sigsauersauce]

Here's the issue I have: it is not whether GZ was in a situation that justified use of deadly force when he fired his weapon (I'll leave that for the authorities to sift through). My issue is that he put himself into that situation by chasing after some kid and instigating a confrontation. I have NO issue with self defense, but I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to how you can truly be a victim in a case where you are the initial aggressor. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not making a legal argument here, just a common sense call.

[Thunder71]

In that case, if a woman flirts with a guy and later gets raped, she initiated it and it is her fault. She would not be justified in using lethal protection to save herself. If not, what makes it different?


Tapatalk - Helping people post from bathrooms since 2009.

[TTS]

Here's the issue I have: it is not whether GZ was in a situation that justified use of deadly force when he fired his weapon (I'll leave that for the authorities to sift through). My issue is that he put himself into that situation by chasing after some kid and instigating a confrontation. I have NO issue with self defense, but I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to how you can truly be a victim in a case where you are the initial aggressor. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not making a legal argument here, just a common sense call.

While I tend to agree from a "moral" standpoint, I am going to play devils advocate.

Since when is following a suspicious person in your gated neighborhood while talking to the police "instigating" a fight? I think all accounts said he was walking back to his vehicle when he was attacked.

[sigsauersauce]

In that case, if a woman flirts with a guy and later gets raped, she initiated it and it is her fault.

Tapatalk - Helping people post from bathrooms since 2009.

A woman flirting with a guy is a normal social interaction and it's reasonable to assume that it won't result in her getting raped. When you initiate a conflict with someone completely unknown for you, you have no idea where it's going to end up and that's a risk that you, as the aggressor, are taking. That's all I'm saying. If you want to be a lone ranger and go around chasing after people you think are suspicious, go get a badge. Otherwise keep your gun in case someone comes after YOU, not the other way around.

[Humphrey Bogart]

Here's the issue I have: it is not whether GZ was in a situation that justified use of deadly force when he fired his weapon (I'll leave that for the authorities to sift through). My issue is that he put himself into that situation by chasing after some kid and instigating a confrontation. I have NO issue with self defense, but I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to how you can truly be a victim in a case where you are the initial aggressor. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not making a legal argument here, just a common sense call.

Respectfully,

(you need to say that three times for it to be heard. so , Respectfully, Respectfully)

That's just plain wrong.

Zimmerman didn't chase the kid. He observed him 'SCOPING-OUT' several residences, walking in the wet grass, not on the sidewalk.

Zimmerman is facing a lynch-mob. And it's working...they are presenting you with the wrong information....as in the F-ing Prosecutor is accusing Zimmerman of 'RACIALLY PROFILING' the kid. Based on what? KKK membership...Nazi tattoos...convictions for burning hate-crosses ???

If they were to release the Thugs school and discipline records, this would all have a different smell to it.

[sigsauersauce]

Here's the issue I have: it is not whether GZ was in a situation that justified use of deadly force when he fired his weapon (I'll leave that for the authorities to sift through). My issue is that he put himself into that situation by chasing after some kid and instigating a confrontation. I have NO issue with self defense, but I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to how you can truly be a victim in a case where you are the initial aggressor. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not making a legal argument here, just a common sense call.

While I tend to agree from a "moral" standpoint, I am going to play devils advocate.

Since when is following a suspicious person in your gated neighborhood while talking to the police "instigating" a fight? I think all accounts said he was walking back to his vehicle when he was attacked.

I get what you're saying, but why did he have to be out of his car to phone it in to the police? Again, I know I'm splitting hairs here, and I'm not saying his life wasn't in danger by the time he fired his weapon. My point is I personally have a hard time calling him a victim.

[Heffay]

And why did he keep following the guy after 911 asked him to back off?

Not really an unwilling participant.

[sigsauersauce]

Here's the issue I have: it is not whether GZ was in a situation that justified use of deadly force when he fired his weapon (I'll leave that for the authorities to sift through). My issue is that he put himself into that situation by chasing after some kid and instigating a confrontation. I have NO issue with self defense, but I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to how you can truly be a victim in a case where you are the initial aggressor. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not making a legal argument here, just a common sense call.

Respectfully,

(you need to say that three time for it to be heard. so , Respectfully, Respectfully)

That's just plain wrong.

Zimmerman didn't chase the kid. He observed him 'SCOPING-OUT' several residences, walking in the wet grass, not on the sidewalk.

Zimmerman is facing a lynch-mob. And it's working...they are presenting you with the wrong information....as in the F-ing Prosecutor is accusing Zimmerman of 'RACIALLY PROFILING' the kid. Based on what? KKK membership...Nazi tattoos...convictions for burning hate-crosses ???

If they were to release the Thugs school and discipline records, this would all have a different smell to it.

j

I respectfully respectfully respectfully hear you.

It's entirely possible you know facts that I am unaware of. I'm not looking to start a flame war here, just expressing the opinion that the whole affair was not the way it HAD to go down. If GZ had stayed in his car, it's hard for the kid to smash his head against the pavement, isn't it?

[jshuberg]

Oh, my mistake. We must not speak against the hive mind. Group think is not only acceptable, but encouraged!

No, it's just that your point - that he got himself into the mess and thus lost the right to self defense is wrong. A persons lawful actions, no matter how poor or stupid, cannot be used against him in court.

What ever he may have done prior to the introduction of violence doesn't matter so long as it was lawful. By arguing the opposite you are embracing the idea that people should be able to be convicted of crimes, not for having broken the law, but by having made poor decisions.

You think you're taking the moral high ground here, but you're not. You're advocating that a persons rights can be stripped from them for having made a poor, yet lawful decision.

Following someone you think is suspicious is not an illegal action. The fact that Zimmerman followed Martin plays absolutely no role in whether he acted in self defense after Martin escalated the situation to violence.

The law doesn't state that you have to be an unwilling participant in the encounter, it says you have to be an unwilling participant to the crime.

[Humphrey Bogart]

I respectfully respectfully respectfully hear you.

It's entirely possible you know facts that I am unaware of. I'm not looking to start a flame war here, just expressing the opinion that the whole affair was not the way it HAD to go down. If GZ had stayed in his car, it's hard for the kid to smash his head against the pavement, isn't it?

I've been carrying for 9 years and I think I've got good habits...

I 'invented' a 'catch-phrase'.....'My firearm gives me 5 speeds in reverse' as in 'Retreat, Retreat, Retreat'

Neighborhood watch while armed.......NOT FOR ME.

The best thing that can happen to this case is for it to become stale and irrelevant. And I hope ABC winds up paying for gold plated faucets in George Zimmerman's dream home.

I recommend viewing Zimmermans re-enactments done for the PO-PO available on You Tube....You have to decide if Zimmerman is a lying rat or a good guy... see for yourself:



Here's part 2...this is good stuff...I think it's required viewing for ....having an opinion on the matter

[jshuberg]

If GZ had stayed in his car, it's hard for the kid to smash his head against the pavement, isn't it?

It doesn't matter. Getting out of your car and following someone may turn out to be a poor decision, but its a perfectly legal action. Had he witnessed Martin breaking someone's window, he would have been completely within his rights to chase him down, restrain him and place him under citizens arrest. It might not be a good idea if you don't have a badge, but it is a right we all do enjoy.

The fact that he got out of his car and followed Martin has absolutely no effect on his right to self defense. Now if it turns out that Zimmerman initiated the violence, he should fry. If it went down the way his story and all of the physical evidence we've seen is leaning, then it was self defense.

[cobb]

And why did he keep following the guy after 911 asked him to back off?

I thought the findings of the investigations indicated that Zimmerman did quit following after advised by the 911 dispatcher to do so. That Zimmerman was in the act of leaving when he was approached and attacked by Martin.

Heffey, please do as you request others to do, please give us a link to your information that Zimmerman continued to follow after told not to. I know that was the initial media report, and of course we all believe the main stream media in their initial reporting, but I thought since then this has been disputed.

[jdege]

Getting out of your car and following someone may turn out to be a poor decision, but its a perfectly legal action.

And that is all that should matter.

But in today's world of politically-motivated prosecutions, it isn't.

[Humphrey Bogart]

In the second vid you can see Zimmermans bandages front and back.

If I'm ever doing a re-enactment for cameras after an assault....I want to be wapped up like a Mummy in an Abbot & Costello Movie.