Father badly beaten for trying to protect his daugher

[David]

Ace, Tutmos said that the STRIB was lying, not your friend. YOU are the one who needs to read closer.

[phorvick]

Ace noted in regards to my comment that "security people" provide no security.... Ace said...."And as for Security people providing no security you are starting to sound like the Jew with a blogg and radio show."

Who said this then? "..they are not trained or instructed to do anything other than call the people with the authority to do something, in a situation like this."

or this.. "..honestly why should some one making less than the Mexican flipping burgers at Micky D's endanger themselves."

or this..."They are not there to cater to you and make you happy cause you spent 50 cents in the store, they are basically there the look after the clients property and interests and at times provide medical assistance to the public and be a visible deterrent. They are not compensated to be a cop and get themselves in harms way or wipe some ones arse to make them feel better,.."

Uh, Ace, that was you. I am sorry for misinterpreting your remarks. Sure sounded to me that you were stating the same thing.

[Aceq2jot]

Ace noted in regards to my comment that "security people" provide no security.... Ace said...."And as for Security people providing no security you are starting to sound like the Jew with a blogg and radio show."

Who said this then? "..they are not trained or instructed to do anything other than call the people with the authority to do something, in a situation like this."

or this.. "..honestly why should some one making less than the Mexican flipping burgers at Micky D's endanger themselves."

Uh, Ace, that was you. I am sorry for misinterpreting your remarks. Sure sounded to me that you were stating the same thing.

And your point is

Below is the state definition of a Security Guard. As you will see it is to perform one or more of the duties listed, and section six lists as directed by the employer. They may perform all or just one of the items listed but it all lies on the client. When i work E.P with my other gig i get $30 an hour as i am expected to protect the client to the full extent possible including deadly force and i am compensated for such and that is listed in section (4). Now you are not going to get the same sort of service for $10 hr. Kinda like buying generic or name brand you get what you pay for. You also have to remember that Security Guards do not normally talk on behalf of their employeer to the media That is normally left to the person with the job description that covers that Cause do they really want some one who makes under $10hr representing the company to the media ??

2007 Minnesota Statutes

(c) "Security guard" means any person who is paid a fee, wage, or salary to perform one
or more of the following functions:
(1) prevention or detection of intrusion, unauthorized entry or activity, vandalism, or trespass
on private property;
(2) prevention or detection of theft, loss, embezzlement, misappropriation, or concealment of
merchandise, money, bonds, stocks, notes, or other valuable documents or papers;
(3) control, regulation, or direction of the flow or movements of the public, whether by
vehicle or otherwise, to assure protection of private property;
(4) protection of individuals from bodily harm;
(5) prevention or detection of intrusion, unauthorized entry or activity, vandalism, or trespass
on Minnesota National Guard facilities, including, but not limited to, Camp Ripley and Air
National Guard air bases; or
(6) enforcement of policies and rules of the security guard's employer related to crime
reduction insofar as such enforcement falls within the scope of security guard's duties.

And let us not forget that teh minimal requirements for a security guard are listed below at the bottom highlighted.


7506.2300 MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR BOARD-CERTIFIED TRAINING PROGRAMS.
Subpart 1.Subject areas.Consistent with the minimum requirements in the following subject areas, the training for armed private detectives and armed protective agents must minimally include training in the areas listed in items A to G:

A.firearms training, including training in the legal limitations on the justifiable use of force and deadly force as specified in Minnesota Statutes, sections 609.06 and 609.065. No license holder, qualified representative, Minnesota manager, partner, or employee may carry or use a weapon while carrying out licensable duties without having successfully completed board-certified training;

B.training in the use of weapons other than firearms (see Minnesota Statutes, section 326.3361, subdivision 1, clause (2));

C.training in alternatives to the use of force;

D.standards for weapons and equipment issued, carried, or used by license holders, qualified representatives, Minnesota managers, partners, and employees;

E.first aid training;

F.preassignment or on-the-job training, in the subject areas set out in part 7506.2600; and

G.continuing training for license holders and employees.

Training for unarmed employees must minimally include training in the areas listed in items F and G.

And of course training is covered here.

7506.2600 PREASSIGNMENT OR ON-THE-JOB TRAINING REQUIREMENTS.
Subpart 1.License requirement.A person employed as a private detective or protective agent must spend a minimum of 12 hours in preassignment training within the first 21 days of employment. An individual who leaves the profession for three years or longer and returns to employment as a private detective or protective agent must repeat the preassignment training.

Subp. 2.Exemption.A person who submits satisfactory proof to the board of actively working full time or part time as a private detective or protective agent or who has a Minnesota license or applies for a Minnesota license before July 1, 1998, is eligible for exemption from the preassignment training requirement.

Subp. 3.Subject areas for protective agents.Preassignment training for protective agents must minimally include training in the following subject areas:

A.security overview;

B.legal authority and liability issues;

C.communications;

D.ethics;

E.incident/situation assessment and emergency response; and

F.Minnesota private detective and protective agent statutes and administrative rules.

Subp. 4.Subject areas for private detectives.Preassignment training for private detectives must minimally include training in the following subject areas:

A.private detective/investigator overview;

B.legal authority and liability issues;

C.communication;

D.rights of privacy, invasion of privacy, and data privacy;

E.situational assessment;

F.ethics; and

G.Minnesota private detective and protective agent statutes and administrative rules.

Subp. 5.Certificate of completion.At the conclusion of each certified training course, the instructor shall provide each student who has successfully completed training with evidence of completion, showing the subject area covered by each course completed and the number of hours completed.

Statutory Authority: MS s 326.3361

History: 22 SR 711

Posted:May 27, 2003

[Ironbear]

You should, of course, pick your battles (lone guy with young daughter... probably let this one slide) but I don't agree with everyone avoiding all conflict at all costs. There is nothing wrong or illegal about chastising someone. The reason that there are so many rude jerkfaces in public is because nobody dares say anything to them and that needs to change.

As for picking your battles, this didn't end as the same battle as it started. Verbally chastising a rude solo ingrate is a much different battle than going toe-to-toe with 8 street predators. One I might be willing to pick, the other I would pick somewhere else to be.

[Tutmos]

You should talk to your friend that works security at Valley Fair then because they're lying through their teeth in that Star Trib article claiming they've only had two other instances of violence this year. /quote]


Dude please read a little slower as no where in there did i say they have not had trouble there, or did i refer to the perrson telling me anything about what happens there. I mentioned a case at the M.O.A ( Mall Of America ) But nothing other than a member of this board worked there.

Heh, Dude you need to read more slowly or carefully then. I said they're lying through their teeth in that Star Trib article. Read the article and you'll know what I'm talking about.

[monkeylips]

I never did like amusement parks, sounds like a good place to stay away from

[chinakay]

Heh, Dude you need to read more slowly or carefully then. I said they're lying through their teeth in that Star Trib article. Read the article and you'll know what I'm talking about.

I'm having a hard time finding where Valleyfair apparently lied. The only mention of previous assault incidents came from the Shakopee police:

<quote>Shakopee Police Capt. Jeff Tate said Valleyfair has "a skirmish once in a while. We usually don't see anything escalate like this." He said park security officers do a good job and that this is the only felony assault this year. He said a domestic assault occurred in the Valleyfair parking lot in May and two juveniles were charged in June with disorderly conduct and misdemeanor assault.<unquote>

Please be careful with your accusations.

[nyffman]

Heh, Dude you need to read more slowly or carefully then. I said they're lying through their teeth in that Star Trib article. Read the article and you'll know what I'm talking about.

I'm having a hard time finding where Valleyfair apparently lied. The only mention of previous assault incidents came from the Shakopee police:

<quote>Shakopee Police Capt. Jeff Tate said Valleyfair has "a skirmish once in a while. We usually don't see anything escalate like this." He said park security officers do a good job and that this is the only felony assault this year. He said a domestic assault occurred in the Valleyfair parking lot in May and two juveniles were charged in June with disorderly conduct and misdemeanor assault.<unquote>

Please be careful with your accusations.

I think there lots of emotional energy going on here, causing a whole bunch of confusion. In the quote from Tutmos which I have copied below, he is saying that he witnessed an event that went unreported. Are you saying that this did not happen? I do not find it difficult to believe that Valley Fair would under report things of this nature in order to maintain an appearance of order. I'm not saying they are intentionally doing this, just that if they are, it wouldn't be the first time a corporation did this.

You should talk to your friend that works security at Valley Fair then because they're lying through their teeth in that Star Trib article claiming they've only had two other instances of violence this year. There were other assaults by very similar groups of hoodlums earlier in the same night and security knew about it because I watched them sprinting to get there just after someone else had been beaten up around 10:45 just after the fireworks back by the Imax building.

[chinakay]

An event that went unreported to whom?

I'm saying that Valleyfair made no claim that there were only two other similar events. Shakopee police said it....and they should know.

[JohninMinnesota]

I never did like amusement parks, sounds like a good place to stay away from

+1 as well as bars and anywhere else low cost entertainment and drinking is combined!

[DeanC]

+1 as well as bars and anywhere else low cost entertainment and drinking is combined!

I'm not sure how much alcohol is readily available at Valleyfair. I don't remember seeing any taps last time I was there.

The Mexican place only has non-alcoholic daquiris and piña colada. Maybe at the Stadium Pizza & Grill? You can't bring any alcohol to the picnic cove which isn't even inside the gates.

[JohninMinnesota]

+1 as well as bars and anywhere else low cost entertainment and drinking is combined!

I'm not sure how much alcohol is readily available at Valleyfair. I don't remember seeing any taps last time I was there.

The Mexican place only has non-alcoholic daquiris and piña colada. Maybe at the Stadium Pizza & Grill? You can't bring any alcohol to the picnic cove which isn't even inside the gates.

Having *never* been to Valley Fair, I wouldn't even know I've been to Six Flags on a weekday in St. Louis, and managed to find some racial angst going on, directed at me after I uttered a friendly comment to a couple of guys with their kids. I don't even remember what I said, but it was something along the lines of "your kids seem to be having a great time". The response was "why don't you keep your **** comments to yourself *******". The guy who spat ugliness obviously had issues, and they weren't about to become mine... I don't like large crowds for that reason, they tend to encourage disparate groups to herd up together and, like what happened here - embolden those who have low self esteem to take it out on some poor slob for some less than equitable reason.

However, my point was that anywhere consumption of alcohol is involved is somewhere I also avoid instinctively... unless there are a lot of hot chicks there with the slut trifecta - smoking, piercings and a tramp stamp!

[Aceq2jot]

You should talk to your friend that works security at Valley Fair then because they're lying through their teeth in that Star Trib article claiming they've only had two other instances of violence this year. /quote]


Dude please read a little slower as no where in there did i say they have not had trouble there, or did i refer to the perrson telling me anything about what happens there. I mentioned a case at the M.O.A ( Mall Of America ) But nothing other than a member of this board worked there.

Heh, Dude you need to read more slowly or carefully then. I said they're lying through their teeth in that Star Trib article. Read the article and you'll know what I'm talking about.

I must have been reading fast or i did not quite get the jest of the underlined.

You should talk to your friend that works security at Valley Fair then because they're lying through their teeth in that Star Trib article claiming they've only had two other instances of violence this year. /quote]

Now everyone at work also took it the same way. The way it is stated you are saying

You should talk to your friend that works security at Valley Fair then because they're lying through their teeth

Then you say in the star trib article. Which basically makes it sound as my friend lied through thier teeth when giving the interview to the star tribune


And as it has been pointed out the info about valley fair was stated by the locla P.D not the Management of Valley Fair.

I think there lots of emotional energy going on here, causing a whole bunch of confusion. In the quote from Tutmos which I have copied below, he is saying that he witnessed an event that went unreported. Are you saying that this did not happen? I do not find it difficult to believe that Valley Fair would under report things of this nature in order to maintain an appearance of order. I'm not saying they are intentionally doing this, just that if they are, it wouldn't be the first time a corporation did this.

The last tiem i checked it was no the public info on what happens on private property, so unless the police have been called there is no public record available or a record they have to publish for joe blow and the public. So i would becareful about making statements about manipulating data.

[ttousi]

However, my point was that anywhere consumption of alcohol is involved is somewhere I also avoid instinctively... unless there are a lot of hot chicks there with the slut trifecta - smoking, piercings and a tramp stamp!

I'm in

[Aceq2jot]

However, my point was that anywhere consumption of alcohol is involved is somewhere I also avoid instinctively... unless there are a lot of hot chicks there with the slut trifecta - smoking, piercings and a tramp stamp!

I'm in

And we can take the short bus and Brit will be our sober driver :o As he is the only i can think of who does not drink