valleyfair situation / good or bad shoot

[rucker]

8 young African American males who were just turning their lives around.....................

KICKED THE LIVING SNOT OUT OF A WHITE FATHER WHO WAS PROTECTING HIS 12 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER FROM SAID THUGS

nothing race related there at all...........move along nothing to see, these are not the droids your looking for

Assuming that was directed at my post.... Maybe the attack was race related but that is completely irrelevant to discussion about our responses. My response to the situation would be the same no matter the race of the parties involved. If, as some have suggested, you would respond differently to a guy getting his head stomped on while his daughter watched based on his or his attackers race is pretty sad.

[Wadero]

SCENARIO: YOU are walking out of an amusement park with YOUR family. YOUR 12 year old daughter gets slapped on the ass. (If it is sexual assault or not, who cares? It probably did not make you very happy.)YOU confront the man that touched YOUR little girl. All of a sudden, YOU are on the ground and the last thing YOU see is a crowd of men (remember only one of them was "youth") kicking the living **** out of YOU.


So remember this is YOU on the ground probably bleeding and experiencing what it feels like to slip in and out of consciousness. Do you want someone to intervene and save your sorry ass or would you be coll that they were worried about the legal issues so they just let it happen for however long it took the cops to get there. Hey, maybe they even got a sweet cell phone video you can put on the internet.

I really don't give a **** about most people that I don't know but I couldn't stand idly by and watch that happen to another man. And if you can, well I hope that if this **** happens to you, someone is around that feels differently than you.

[justaguy]

I’ll stand there on the phone and watch a wife and a 12 year old try to help their loved one while he is in a fight for maybe his life. The least I will do is cheer for the wife and kid while they mix it up with 8 dudes.

Because if I as another male try to help and end up pulling a gun (IF I have too) will go to prison for 20yr and or spend 20,000 American pesos getting out of it.

And at the same time the sorry a-holes that kicked your ass are telling their story to the cops. Your 12 year old kid that just watched and fought 8 dudes beat the **** out of her dad is screaming and crying next to her mom doing close to the same thing. All while they cart your sorry a$$ off on a cart.

After that the cops on scene will look at me as a mass murder and being a dumb **** and trying to help this family. The family and community will then treat me like a murder and I will spend the rest of my life broke in prison getting raped.

Letting this go on is just as bad as doing it. You all stand there with your cell phones and sheep dog pins. I just ask you to stay the **** out of the way of someone that might try to actually do some good. Maybe you could get some video. Make sure you tell your kids to never serve their country either because that isn’t their responsibility others do that because they might get hurt. That is the way to build a strong America by being afraid and passing it off.

“Cemeteries are full of hero’s” they are also full of cowards and people that died for you in a round about way. Show them and life a little respect. No matter what you never make it out of life alive.

[Aceq2jot]

You can't be charged with a hate crime in this case because defending the guy wouldn't have been a crime at all.

You are Correct Sir. Minnesota has no hate crime law

On what basis are you stating that the father is white? All reports I've heard have been deliberately vague about identifying details of the victims including their race. Have you seen any report that states their race or is that just an (possibly subconsciously racist) assumption?

There have been reports in the newspapers the press for one that said the father was white and there has been links to thier mug shots and crim records posted.

[princewally]

You are Correct Sir. Minnesota has no hate crime law

Unless, of course, you count crimes motivated by bias against a person's actual or perceived race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, disability as defined in section 363A.03, age, or national origin as a hate crime.

See 609.749, 609.595 and 609.2231 for examples.

There have been reports in the newspapers the press for one that said the father was white and there has been links to thier mug shots and crim records posted.

Now, seriously, where has the victim's race been reported? I know the thugs were black, and part of the Evans pimp family, but I haven't seen the victim's race as anything more than assumptions on the internet.

[Jeff Bergquist]

There have been reports in the newspapers the press for one that said the father was white and there has been links to thier mug shots and crim records posted.

Now, seriously, where has the victim's race been reported? I know the thugs were black, and part of the Evans pimp family, but I haven't seen the victim's race as anything more than assumptions on the internet.

My point exactly. I had specifically been looking for but haven't seen, either on television or in the Minneapolis paper, a single mention of the race of the victims. That doesn't mean it hasn't been published, but if someone is going to claim that it has, they should post a link.

The reason I had been looking for this info was because I caught myself making the (probably subconsciously racist) assumption that the victims were white.

[hammAR]

It really does not matter what race the "family" was, nor does it matter what race the "mob" was...............the point was that a father was attacked by a group of feral youth and severely beaten.

This is the current and future that we are all facing and we really have two choices; as individuals to avoid going places that may be venues for this type of event to occur or not, and as individuals observing such event occurring and deciding to get involved or not.

Decide, either be a sheepdog or a sheep, but don't evade the issue arguing over what the definition of "is" is.........

[Aceq2jot]

My point exactly. I had specifically been looking for but haven't seen, either on television or in the Minneapolis paper, a single mention of the race of the victims. That doesn't mean it hasn't been published, but if someone is going to claim that it has, they should post a link.

The reason I had been looking for this info was because I caught myself making the (probably subconsciously racist) assumption that the victims were white.

It was actually in the St paul pioneer press yesterday as i read it in the paper. The story from yesterday's is not online, which seems pretty common with the Press as htey dont seem to put the entire paper online. But i will see if i can find yesterdays copy in the recycling.

Its kinda like the article about the Black guy who has turned his life around and is working for an organisation cutting trees etc in north minneapolis leqving behind the drug dealing etc. He stated in the article that he was raised to hate white people but i cant find it online but i showed it gunny so he saw it

I found it and to qoute the paper

Johnson, along with his gang indoctrination, had been taught to hate and distrust white people

And why geet a real job???

The Tree Trust job paid $8 an hour. He kept thinking that he could make up to $400 on a good day and no less than $200 on a bad day selling drugs.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_9902400?IA ... cities.com

[Jeff Bergquist]

It really does not matter what race the "family" was, nor does it matter what race the "mob" was...............the point was that a father was attacked by a group of feral youth and severely beaten.

I agree completely about the actual issues, but my point was that people were arguing as though it were a racial issue without any real knowledge but just assumptions about all the races that might or might not have been involved.

It was actually in the St paul pioneer press yesterday as i read it in the paper. The story from yesterday's is not online, which seems pretty common with the Press as htey dont seem to put the entire paper online. But i will see if i can find yesterdays copy in the recycling.

Its kinda like the article about the Black guy who has turned his life around and is working for an organisation cutting trees etc in north minneapolis leqving behind the drug dealing etc. He stated in the article that he was raised to hate white people but i cant find it online but i showed it gunny so he saw it

I found it and to qoute the paper Johnson, along with his gang indoctrination, had been taught to hate and distrust white people

I don't understand. The Valleyfair victims had to be white because a former gangbanger who had nothing to do with the attack was "taught to hate and distrust white people"?

[Pinnacle]

after sexually assaulting his daughter

(Note: Under current MN Law - the use of deadly force would have been 100% JUSTIFIED in this case.)

Well, actually under MN Law it wasn't a sexual assault:

..."sexual contact"... does not include the intentional touching of the clothing covering the immediate area of the buttocks.

I was not referring to the CSC - I was referring to what an innocent bystander (like one of us) might have the ability to do if we saw someone beating the snot out of one another with such a disparity of force and overwhelming violence.

This is yet another rock and a hard place situation. If you shoot - you will likely shoot one or more of the perps whom were just getting their lives together - or you shoot the 14 year old and you are screwed in the press - no matter how justified you were in your actions.

I am glad that I was not there and I did not have to make a decision to get involved. Either way you look at it - there is no right in this situation. You will go to Jail - You will be out considerable cash to prove you were justified under the law - you will have perhaps saved a mans life - but at the cost of your freedom and financial future for YOUR Family.

YOUR family comes FIRST and if being a good witness is as far as you are willing to go - there is no shame in that despite what others might say on the internet. If you are willing to roll the dice with the legal system - fire away and hope for the best.

Note: I would fond it extremely difficult to stand there and watch a guy get the piss pounded out of him and not get involved - that doesn't work in my world.

[DeanC]

after sexually assaulting his daughter

(Note: Under current MN Law - the use of deadly force would have been 100% JUSTIFIED in this case.)

Well, actually under MN Law it wasn't a sexual assault:

..."sexual contact"... does not include the intentional touching of the clothing covering the immediate area of the buttocks.

I was not referring to the CSC - I was referring to what an innocent bystander (like one of us) might have the ability to do if we saw someone beating the snot out of one another with such a disparity of force and overwhelming violence.

I figured that, but wanted to make sure.

At some point in that conflict I totally agree that it became an incident where deadly force was justified.

[SpecForces78-81]

Well Ladies & Gentleman - My 2 cents worth - How my Parents rasied me ,, my past jobs ,, my feelings on a fellow human being ,, & me being a Sheepdog , instead of a sheep - I would of tried to step in to do something & yelled at the rest of people around to help - as far as CCW - I would of had to had a clear shot before I pulled ,, for me - I have NEVER just stood by & let things happen like this - & yes in my past,issues have come about - about me helping to stop a attacks. I just feel - I could not stand by & do nothing - Stay safe & practice - Everyone have a great day !

[Aceq2jot]

It was actually in the St paul pioneer press yesterday as i read it in the paper. The story from yesterday's is not online, which seems pretty common with the Press as htey dont seem to put the entire paper online. But i will see if i can find yesterdays copy in the recycling.

Its kinda like the article about the Black guy who has turned his life around and is working for an organisation cutting trees etc in north minneapolis leqving behind the drug dealing etc. He stated in the article that he was raised to hate white people but i cant find it online but i showed it gunny so he saw it

I found it and to qoute the paper Johnson, along with his gang indoctrination, had been taught to hate and distrust white people

I don't understand. The Valleyfair victims had to be white because a former gangbanger who had nothing to do with the attack was "taught to hate and distrust white people"?

Two diffrent articles one motive.

Racism

One was a black on white attack And another was where it was printed with reference that the BLACK MAN is raised to be racist and hate the WHITE MAN

[rucker]

Two diffrent articles one motive.

Racism

One was a black on white attack And another was where it was printed with reference that the BLACK MAN is raised to be racist and hate the WHITE MAN

Actually the story you linked says that "Johnson, along with his gang indoctrination, had been taught to hate and distrust white people."

Did you mean that it was printed with a reference that a black man was raised to hate white people or are you making racist generalizations again?

[Aceq2jot]

Two diffrent articles one motive.

Racism

One was a black on white attack And another was where it was printed with reference that the BLACK MAN is raised to be racist and hate the WHITE MAN

Actually the story you linked says that "Johnson, along with his gang indoctrination, had been taught to hate and distrust white people."

Did you mean that it was printed with a reference that a black man was raised to hate white people or are you making racist generalizations again?

.


Are You calling me a racist? Isnt that against rule #1? That is easily construed as a personal attack

What i merely pointed out was that there are black people who hate white People

And if one of them beat a white person up it would not be called a racist attack

But if a white guy kicked the **** out of a black person that would be called a racist attack

And further more i find that statement Very offensive.

are you making racist generalizations again

As you dont know me from Adam it is rather white of you to judge me like that. I have several people i hang with who are of many races, but none of them and pant sagging brothers who wander the ghetto